Christopher Hull PhD Gatestone and senior fellow at AIR, leftist philosophy

For the entire transcript of this interview, please continue reading

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so we’re here with Chris Hall who is a

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distinguished senior fellow at the gates

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don’t Institute it’s a site that

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everybody should be reading every day

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they really had some great writers and

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some great subjects and I believe that

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recently you published some material on

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multiculturalism which I’ve always

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viewed as a not simran actually a number

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of people who have told me they they’re

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into multi they believe in multi Khosla

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which is like everybody in Canada I

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asked them for some money to help build

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a bullfight arena downtown and none of

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them would do it and I asked him where

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we’re gonna put the Center to stone

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women and they looked at me in horror

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and I said well where are we gonna burn

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the widows alive on their husband’s

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funeral pyre for the Hindus and they

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would have none of it and I thought okay

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so really what you’re saying is

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multiculturalism means one culture for

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the whole world of socialism and it’s

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just different colored people is that

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more or less how you see it or do you

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want to flesh that out

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sure so the way that I think the the

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best way to tackle multiculturalism if

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we really want to think about it deeply

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in my view is to think of it in terms of

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its function and this is challenging to

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prove I suppose but I think that you

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really need to think of it in the in the

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sweep of philosophical history and it

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kind of runs this way you have Plato you

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know so let’s start at the beginning

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right you have Plato who lays out a

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vision for a totalitarian state with

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ownership in common with you know people

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who are slotted into particular roles

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with the philosopher Kings so the people

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who are the smart ones are in charge and

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nobody else is allowed to rule with

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people who defend them you know and with

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control over all of the overall speech

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right artists and poets and playwrights

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everybody is basically in run by the

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state that’s the totalitarian vision we

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went through there’s a whole set of

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evolution

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we’re marks you know talks about okay

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how do we how do we actually you know

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get to this state and he talks about he

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talks about the dialectic right he talks

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about the dialectic which is okay you

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identify that social forces really

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economic forces in his mind but you know

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social forces like the proletariat and

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the bourgeoisie fight there’s this a

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thesis and antithesis and then you come

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up with the synthesis and the synthesis

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will be socialism that’s the basic idea

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philosophically well that didn’t work

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right it didn’t work there was only a

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very small number of actual revolutions

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which took place and then more and more

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that was in small countries that are

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being toppled by the Soviet Union

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instead what you what you find is a

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whole line of thought coming from Marx

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about okay how do we do this in

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developed countries and that thinking

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which runs through a whole gamut of

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people I won’t bother to go into was all

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about all right

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we’re very it’s very unlikely that in

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the United States of America or in Italy

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or in wherever it was France UK in the

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West it’s very unlikely we’re going to

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be able to actually have a fight

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directly with the army and win and so

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how are we going to take it over well

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we’ve got to find other dialectics we’ve

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got to find others who hate the current

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system for one reason or another are

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willing to sacrifice it on the altar of

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extremism of some kind right so what we

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what multiculturalism is in my judgment

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is an attempt to identify every culture

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that is antithetical to the greatest

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culture on the face of the planet the

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Western sort of combination of

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judeo-christian values with memories

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right exactly with Greek right with

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democratic ought with Greek and Roman

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princess a chronic right yes I’m so I’ve

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got these Plato’s teacher he was he was

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and I would say Aristotelian personally

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I’m more of a fan of Aristotle than I am

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of Plato and more of a fan of Plato than

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I am of Socrates I think Socrates is a

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bit of us office personally but what’s

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you know what’s important to us today is

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that there is there was the development

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of twin Enlightenment’s and you know

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this is all a been Shapiro has written

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actually you know for a cock no I think

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that repair was actually a really super

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smart guy I disagree with him on a lot

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but you know this is I think he’s done a

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pretty darn good job in his book of

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laying out the way that two intellectual

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movements developed in the West and

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right now one of them is is is

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strangling the other one to death the

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one that’s winning is multiculturalism

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slash cultural Marxism slash political

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correctness slash post-modernism it’s

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all the same thing it’s all the same

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thing it’s just the weaponized version

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of Marxism that has been hybridized and

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weaponized in the West that is killing

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Americanism it’s killing Western

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rationale liberal in the classical sense

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right right and Christianity it’s

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killing Christianity and democracy with

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the same bullet yeah I have to say

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that’s a pretty good summary of it and I

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would say all those things are

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essentially a lot of those names you

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mentioned there are sort of tactics that

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were derived from this sort of hegelian

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Mark Steyn it’s it’s terrifying how

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effective it is so yeah so at the end of

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the day multiculturalism is just another

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tactic yeah to destroy because I noticed

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that classical culture is never included

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in any multicultural thing

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Rati culturalism must mean that we have

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to admire and include and promote any

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culture other than Western European

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classical culture so it is right so

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that’s that’s the first clue that it

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isn’t really about multiculturalism and

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and of course it can’t exist because

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you’ve lost nothing more than the

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crystallization of any culture anyway

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like how do you view property can you

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have private property but the Eskimos

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Indians or gypsies agree which you know

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how can we have multiple cultures in one

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area that view other people’s property

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in fundamentally different ways can’t

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happen I mean that’s just for openers

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right the value and sanctity of life

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abortion murder and so on these are all

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functions of culture and you can’t have

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more than one in an area period so

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multiculturalism czar not simmer and off

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right out of the gate so now that we can

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say okay we know that we can say that

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this is tactical what are you what do we

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do about it well so I think that the the

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first thing is of course know they know

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thyself and know the enemy right you

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know the first thing is society with

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Socrates who said I think know thyself

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if there’s one thing that you should

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really know it is that you should know

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yourself and I think American is lost

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I shouldn’t say just America obviously

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there’s others who are good friends of

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mine are in Canada we’re facing the same

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thing France Austria the European you

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know the Europeans writ large and

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frankly I think that all of our friends

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around the world have seen that the

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greatest civilization of the world has

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ever produced is this is this West right

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and that’s why people in Japan wear ties

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you know it’s not it’s not a mistake

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it’s not an accident it’s not a

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coincidence you know worse it’s because

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it works it’s because it works that’s

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why people from every other bloody place

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in the world will swim boat get into a

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rubber tire and risk their lives to get

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to it

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it is lutely right right because their

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culture is better know that that’s right

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that’s right exactly this is this is

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that it’s the greatest thing that man

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has ever developed in terms of figuring

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out how to provide for human flourishing

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it’s a way that the Philosopher’s refer

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to it but you and I think of it as in

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terms of happiness right people are

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happier when they’re free people are

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happier when they’re free people are

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happier when they are religious people

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you know and by the way that’s not to

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say that that atheists are necessarily

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wrong I’m not saying that atheists are

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necessarily wrong or agnostics are

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necessarily wrong or that any you know

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any intellectual take on religion is

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necessarily wrong what I’m saying is as

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a statistical fact it is a true it’s

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true that those who are religious are

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happier than those who are not they are

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more successful they

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make more money they get divorced less

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they smoke less they shoot themselves in

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the head less they shoot other people in

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the head less they are they are they

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lead more successful lives on average

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right that must depend on which

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religions very true which is the next

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thing is that religion is a tool right

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religion is you may believe as I do that

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it is a tool given to us by God in some

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cases right but it is also a tool that

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is used by Satan if you are from that

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camp and if you’re not if you’re an

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atheist still you should recognize that

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as a psychological principle religion is

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a tool right it’s a tool that man is

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given to understand the world to live in

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the world and to be successful or to be

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unsuccessful and when you are sinning

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and doing things wrong things bad things

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have happened to you now there are also

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as you say as you implied there are

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satanic religions right obviously the

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worship of Satan would qualify as a

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satanic religion that’s I don’t I don’t

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think that’s controversial even with

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Satanists and those religions teach you

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to do the exact opposite they literally

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have you know a black mass my

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understanding is I haven’t been to one

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not going but my understanding is that

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you know they’re actually doing things

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backwards they’re you know cursing God

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and doing all these sorts of things

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they’re trying to find an inverse of the

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things that have been shown to work over

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the course of thousands of years and you

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know some of these religions produce

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really good results and some don’t and

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that could be because for one of two

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reasons one is that they are effective

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psychological tools for understanding

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the way to to live in the world in such

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a way that you are successful or you’re

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blessed by God and maybe those two

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things aren’t so far apart frankly you

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know I happen to be identifiably

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theistic I’m personally Catholic you

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know I can’t I happen to treasure

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cherish my faith I still acknowledge

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that what you know what I’m teaching my

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son and when I’m reading to him from the

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children’s Bible I’m T I’m telling him

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stories that you know it’s hundreds

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thousands of stories that help you

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understand how to live in the world and

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and how to be a good person and how to

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make other people happy and how to be a

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hero and how to be

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you know and and what kind of person is

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a sinner and what kind of person is evil

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and what kind of person is good and as

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Souls Nielsen said right

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he said the line between good and evil

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runs down the heart of every person and

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I think that’s true and I think that

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that’s what the founders the founding

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fathers of America understood I think

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that that’s what Christ understood I

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think that that’s what the Jewish people

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understood I think that’s what

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Christians understand and that is the

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way to set up a society understanding

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that there are there’s good and evil in

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everybody and that nobody’s going to be

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perfect and that there’s no way to

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construct a system where that won’t be

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true and when you lose sight of that it

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creates untold blood and horror and the

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system that is strangling our system and

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our religion and our culture to death

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and our political system I should say to

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death that system has been responsible

0:12:01.839,0:12:07.660
for 94 million deaths in the last

0:12:04.810,0:12:11.320
hundred years at the risk of tying us

0:12:07.660,0:12:14.490
all together would you would you agree

0:12:11.320,0:12:18.250
that Christianity and Judaism and

0:12:14.490,0:12:23.080
Aristotle Ian thought all hold that the

0:12:18.250,0:12:25.660
individual is the center of the ethical

0:12:23.080,0:12:28.029
cosmos and that agency lies with the

0:12:25.660,0:12:30.310
individual and therefore the individual

0:12:28.029,0:12:32.230
is responsible for their choices and our

0:12:30.310,0:12:36.010
and the legal systems that come from

0:12:32.230,0:12:39.160
both Christian Jewish and and Socratic

0:12:36.010,0:12:42.430
Aristotle Ian thought determined that a

0:12:39.160,0:12:45.220
person should be treated by the law and

0:12:42.430,0:12:48.430
society based on the assumption of that

0:12:45.220,0:12:52.150
agency that individual agency yes okay

0:12:48.430,0:12:55.270
we also agree that then Islam and

0:12:52.150,0:12:57.970
leftism in fact are both entirely

0:12:55.270,0:13:00.730
collectivist have essentially no belief

0:12:57.970,0:13:02.800
in personal agency or that they’re that

0:13:00.730,0:13:04.450
the individual should have because they

0:13:02.800,0:13:07.470
have no agency also which is actually

0:13:04.450,0:13:10.720
quite logical have no right yes okay so

0:13:07.470,0:13:13.150
yes yeah yes yes and they’re not alone

0:13:10.720,0:13:15.820
you know virtually every belief system

0:13:13.150,0:13:16.290
on the face of the planet had some sort

0:13:15.820,0:13:21.649
of verse

0:13:16.290,0:13:23.639
that you know until until the rise of

0:13:21.649,0:13:27.869
Western civilization as far as I can

0:13:23.639,0:13:29.309
tell and but yes yes I believe that and

0:13:27.869,0:13:30.929
by the way let’s define leftism just a

0:13:29.309,0:13:33.179
little bit more carefully I think it’s

0:13:30.929,0:13:35.429
important to understand and I think that

0:13:33.179,0:13:37.229
this is very important for our friends

0:13:35.429,0:13:39.869
right you know I’m on the right you’re

0:13:37.229,0:13:42.329
on the right if you if you want to

0:13:39.869,0:13:45.749
simplify it down to you know a little

0:13:42.329,0:13:46.769
standing yeah exactly right if you want

0:13:45.749,0:13:48.899
to simplify it down to something like

0:13:46.769,0:13:51.509
that I think it’s important to say that

0:13:48.899,0:13:53.459
one of the ways that you define leftism

0:13:51.509,0:13:55.589
is in terms of exactly what you’re

0:13:53.459,0:13:59.970
talking about right you’re nailing it it

0:13:55.589,0:14:02.129
is do you believe do you believe that

0:13:59.970,0:14:03.749
the individual is responsible or do you

0:14:02.129,0:14:05.069
believe that groups are responsible do

0:14:03.749,0:14:06.209
you believe that individuals have rights

0:14:05.069,0:14:10.109
or do you believe that those rights are

0:14:06.209,0:14:14.299
conferred by the group and if you are

0:14:10.109,0:14:17.160
you know the the farthest left

0:14:14.299,0:14:19.459
individuals who are civil libertarians

0:14:17.160,0:14:21.269
take Alan Dershowitz as an example right

0:14:19.459,0:14:26.269
Professor Alan Dershowitz of Harvard

0:14:21.269,0:14:29.850
University radically disagrees with

0:14:26.269,0:14:31.980
totalitarian Marxist thought in my

0:14:29.850,0:14:34.139
judgment because he supports free speech

0:14:31.980,0:14:35.549
he supports individual agency I disagree

0:14:34.139,0:14:37.529
with him on everything I mean you know

0:14:35.549,0:14:39.889
on everything on abortion on death

0:14:37.529,0:14:42.359
penalty on all sorts of things but I

0:14:39.889,0:14:44.759
fundamentally think he is a healthy

0:14:42.359,0:14:47.429
force in society because he is somebody

0:14:44.759,0:14:49.529
who is on the left part of the spectrum

0:14:47.429,0:14:51.749
but he’s a small D democratic right

0:14:49.529,0:14:54.779
right he believes in he believes in a

0:14:51.749,0:14:56.970
judeo-christian today what my ethical

0:14:54.779,0:14:58.319
system right and he’s for freedom in the

0:14:56.970,0:14:59.730
same way that I’m for freedom he has a

0:14:58.319,0:15:02.579
different conception of it but god bless

0:14:59.730,0:15:03.720
him I am delighted to allow him to

0:15:02.579,0:15:06.659
debate that he’s a thousand times

0:15:03.720,0:15:08.779
smarter than I am but I want him to be

0:15:06.659,0:15:12.269
out there debating it because he thinks

0:15:08.779,0:15:14.100
he thinks in terms of true freedom and

0:15:12.269,0:15:15.989
true individual agency I think that

0:15:14.100,0:15:17.519
that’s healthy which he’s not a leftist

0:15:15.989,0:15:19.709
which which by the which by the

0:15:17.519,0:15:22.529
contemporary move the goalposts

0:15:19.709,0:15:24.720
standards meet makes him a far

0:15:22.529,0:15:26.770
right-wing extremist actually yes yeah

0:15:24.720,0:15:29.750
I’m not like kidding I mean it

0:15:26.770,0:15:32.060
but in truth it isn’t last question then

0:15:29.750,0:15:35.390
the sense we’re coming up on about 15

0:15:32.060,0:15:38.420
minutes last question would you agree

0:15:35.390,0:15:41.300
that because both Islam and leftist

0:15:38.420,0:15:42.800
systems of collective rights over and

0:15:41.300,0:15:45.470
the non-existence of individual rights

0:15:42.800,0:15:48.500
seems to also historically and maybe

0:15:45.470,0:15:50.600
philosophically be coupled with a lack

0:15:48.500,0:15:52.910
of need for any kind of due process or

0:15:50.600,0:15:56.060
logical reasoning to determine guilt

0:15:52.910,0:15:58.790
because agency doesn’t matter man that

0:15:56.060,0:16:00.740
was too condensed but no no but I’ll

0:15:58.790,0:16:03.260
tease it out i I agree with you I see

0:16:00.740,0:16:06.920
where you’re going and I and I and I

0:16:03.260,0:16:09.160
fundamentally agree yes so again to take

0:16:06.920,0:16:13.520
it philosophically and then historically

0:16:09.160,0:16:15.530
so philosophically that’s right if if it

0:16:13.520,0:16:19.250
is your group membership whether that’s

0:16:15.530,0:16:20.900
in the proletariat or in a culture

0:16:19.250,0:16:23.930
hostile to the West

0:16:20.900,0:16:25.780
yeah yeah right whether right if he’s

0:16:23.930,0:16:28.730
your group membership which conveys your

0:16:25.780,0:16:30.650
value and therefore the intersectional

0:16:28.730,0:16:33.230
left you know currently believes that

0:16:30.650,0:16:35.720
you know the more oppressed you know the

0:16:33.230,0:16:38.510
more oppressed you are therefore the

0:16:35.720,0:16:40.730
more right you have to speak it

0:16:38.510,0:16:43.190
fundamentally follows that if that’s the

0:16:40.730,0:16:46.130
measure of truth if you’re

0:16:43.190,0:16:50.240
intersectional you know oppressiveness

0:16:46.130,0:16:51.470
is the measure of truth then you know if

0:16:50.240,0:16:53.960
you’re not oppressed you’re guilty

0:16:51.470,0:16:56.000
you’re evil you’re not just guilty

0:16:53.960,0:16:58.100
you’re evil and therefore nothing that

0:16:56.000,0:16:59.660
you can say should even be listened to

0:16:58.100,0:17:03.560
should you know it should actually be

0:16:59.660,0:17:05.180
drowned out and and crushed so you know

0:17:03.560,0:17:07.520
I think that and that and that’s true

0:17:05.180,0:17:09.230
that’s true also I believe of Islam and

0:17:07.520,0:17:11.420
no Islamic scholar but I’ve looked at

0:17:09.230,0:17:13.790
divers and unbelievers the Koran would

0:17:11.420,0:17:16.600
say the exact same thing yes yes exactly

0:17:13.790,0:17:19.160
for a dhimmi versus right versus a

0:17:16.600,0:17:22.160
believing Sharia compliant Muslim same

0:17:19.160,0:17:24.940
thing same thing you you you know yes

0:17:22.160,0:17:27.530
one is guilty by his or her very nature

0:17:24.940,0:17:30.320
and the other is innocent by his or her

0:17:27.530,0:17:32.000
very nature so that’s the history that

0:17:30.320,0:17:34.070
that is the fellow the philosophy that

0:17:32.000,0:17:38.399
the history is yeah on one side you’ve

0:17:34.070,0:17:42.429
got 94 million deaths right uh

0:17:38.399,0:17:44.919
from Marxism basically writ large and on

0:17:42.429,0:17:46.510
the other side you’ve got I’ll gosh I’m

0:17:44.919,0:17:49.149
gonna get the number wrong two hundred

0:17:46.510,0:17:50.380
and two hundred and ninety five million

0:17:49.149,0:17:51.909
death something like that over fourteen

0:17:50.380,0:17:56.320
hundred and forty years I think I’ve got

0:17:51.909,0:17:58.510
that right yeah yeah yeah I mean these

0:17:56.320,0:18:00.940
unbelievable body counts that you know

0:17:58.510,0:18:02.950
here’s the thing the reality is that

0:18:00.940,0:18:05.260
human beings can’t we’re not we’re not

0:18:02.950,0:18:08.740
built to comprehend numbers like ninety

0:18:05.260,0:18:10.960
four million and 295 million whatever

0:18:08.740,0:18:14.320
the number is north as Lenin said one

0:18:10.960,0:18:16.450
deaths a tragedy you know huh 93 million

0:18:14.320,0:18:18.669
deaths is a statistic is this statistic

0:18:16.450,0:18:21.940
exactly and so let me just let me just

0:18:18.669,0:18:27.549
say that think about this in terms of

0:18:21.940,0:18:30.789
one child right there was for example an

0:18:27.549,0:18:35.169
eight-year-old boy at the Boston bombing

0:18:30.789,0:18:37.620
who and one of these scumbags by the

0:18:35.169,0:18:42.039
technical term I’m one of these two

0:18:37.620,0:18:43.809
Islamic scumbags dropped a bomb off in a

0:18:42.039,0:18:45.460
knapsack right next to this

0:18:43.809,0:18:48.250
eight-year-old boy and the

0:18:45.460,0:18:49.630
eight-year-old boy was you know standing

0:18:48.250,0:18:51.909
there when the bomb blew up and he

0:18:49.630,0:18:55.029
didn’t die immediately he bled himself

0:18:51.909,0:18:58.510
out with his parents right there and she

0:18:55.029,0:19:00.070
died basically and his I don’t think he

0:18:58.510,0:19:04.120
was actually physically in his parents

0:19:00.070,0:19:06.399
arms sadly but you know he’s dead he was

0:19:04.120,0:19:12.659
eight at the time the Boston bombing

0:19:06.399,0:19:16.840
that is the result x 94 million times

0:19:12.659,0:19:19.179
295 million you know plus 200 million

0:19:16.840,0:19:22.899
times that right that whatever that math

0:19:19.179,0:19:25.720
is tell that story to yourself what is

0:19:22.899,0:19:28.570
that that’s four hundred million times

0:19:25.720,0:19:30.990
that is the problem that we are

0:19:28.570,0:19:34.000
currently facing and there will be

0:19:30.990,0:19:35.769
bloodshed on that scale and more if we

0:19:34.000,0:19:37.630
allow it to win and that’s why we can’t

0:19:35.769,0:19:38.139
grow us all that’s a great place to

0:19:37.630,0:19:40.120
leave it

0:19:38.139,0:19:43.210
thank you very much for taking the time

0:19:40.120,0:19:44.500
out with me to do this and it was great

0:19:43.210,0:19:46.840
I think we should do this again another

0:19:44.500,0:19:48.730
subject very soon delighted to do it

0:19:46.840,0:19:50.909
absolutely you’re a warrior god bless

0:19:48.730,0:19:50.909
you

0:20:19.510,0:20:22.609
[Music]

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