Senior fellow with AIR, Barry Webb author and retired NSA Arabist on 72 virgins

For the entire transcript of this interview, please continue reading

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Barry Webb tonight we’re gonna discuss

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if I’m understanding you correctly the

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whole 72 virgins myth now before you

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start my impression was always that

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Mohammad was this guy that found a way

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to con teenage boys into fighting for

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his advanced sexual opportunity money

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and power by promising them sex in an

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afterlife when it was extremely

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difficult to obtain in the current life

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is there more to it take it away

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yeah there’s a lot to first of all the

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Quran does not give the number of 72 but

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however there are several places in the

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Quran this is the the jihadi who days

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fighting for for our law does you know

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he gets this free Express ticket to

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heaven immediately and in other words he

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doesn’t have to wait for the day of

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resurrection he in traditional Islamic

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thought even a devout Muslim who dies

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doesn’t go right to heaven in fact their

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attire consciousness and existence

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ceases to exist until the end of times

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and the day of resurrection and at this

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time all the graves will be opened up

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and all the bones will be reconstituted

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and recalled the with flesh and there

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been everybody goes to the Judgment Day

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but the jihadi who dies fighting for you

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know fused to be the law on behalf of

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the law doesn’t have to wait until the

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day of resurrection he gets this free

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Express ticket comes from s/he first the

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third chapter and third star of the

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Quran verse 169 it says don’t think that

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the martyr or you know was died fighting

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for a loft that he is dead

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no they they live and they’re with Allah

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now now all this stuff so they get these

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three goodies immediately and

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course among these goodies in addition

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to wine and fruit hanging from the trees

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and all this stuff beautiful young boys

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that pour your drink for you 21st you

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get you have these beautiful babes but

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then it’s just described this round

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breast hood and downcast eyes many

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they’re very submissive and the

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perpetual versions no matter how many

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times to screw them but the Quran never

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says 72 that came that number came from

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some obscure hadith that the 14th

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century scholar even affair quoted in

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his toughest Arabic on and so that

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became the standard for jihad he’s from

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then on out they you know bleeding the

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72 virgins but the two most

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authoritative collections of hadith

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sahih bukhari and sorry Muslim and they

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said you only get two of these bags but

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they’re 90 feet tall so maybe two is all

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you need

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holy cow I mean you know there’s an

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awful lot of jokes I could make right

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now and I’m not gonna do it but anyway

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one thing I wanted to bring up here is

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until your audience is it really awarded

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this idea come from and it’s not

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original with this long okay

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it died historical we find originally we

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have to go back into the early

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indo-iranians

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you know several thousand years before

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Christ the most ancient beliefs had you

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know when Dad died you went into this

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dark this dark place under the earth or

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nothing happened and it was just

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everything was dull and gray and you

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know forever never never really boring

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and then at some point this is about

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when the indo-iranian began to split up

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into well you know the air in India

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who ended up going to Indian when they

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split off the branch that went into

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Persia and then begin to develop beliefs

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that you know maybe there’s a way out of

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this maybe really important people like

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priests and and princes and warriors you

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know they get they can escape this

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dreary afterlife you know by going to

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heaven you know then after life they

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start to believe in an afterlife and

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then over time they began to add

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actually did you see lawyers Boyer no no

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warriors warriors worried yeah I just

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you know lawyers I would believe they

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would make that up for themselves but

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Surya princes and priests and warriors

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fighters that have this escape clause

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they can they can go to heaven you know

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and escape that that jury afterlife and

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so over time they begin to add goodies

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and you know what the heaven is going to

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be like you know you can enjoy your body

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will be refilled with flesh and you can

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enjoy although you know all these

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goodies and then they developed an idea

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that when you died you cross this bridge

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between the now and the hereafter and if

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you were a warrior or a prince or a

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braced and you were righteous you would

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be met by a beautiful young maiden and

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would then lead you across you know to

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the other side to heaven however if you

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didn’t meet that criteria you would be

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met by an ugly old hag and then she

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would jump off the bridge with you and

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you’d fall into this huge this deep and

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never-ending you know says I’m you know

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that’s the end of you know it’s sniffing

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significant here is that only certain

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males

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you know the elite males the rulers the

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priests and the Warriors are met by the

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beautiful maiden and taken to the you

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know to the paradise on the other side

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women never had a chance you know no

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matter what they did you know because

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they couldn’t be rulers they couldn’t be

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priests they couldn’t be warriors so

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they were Sol you know they down they

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went and we see that reflected to a

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Kalon never in the Quran doesn’t say

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anything about an afterlife for women

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I believe it does say that women or

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might be a hadith that women get to go

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and watch their husbands to have a

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wonderful eternity that’s not in the

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Koran but over time Islamic you know do

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what Allah the Islamic scholar was

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beginning to realize that this is a

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little bit one side and they have to do

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something for the women and so I’m gonna

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do you think there’s in the hadith just

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in some of the interpretations you know

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of later scholars that the really

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righteous woman who was totally devoted

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and obedient to her husband you can go

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to heaven and she would be reunited with

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her husband and if she had been married

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more than once you know maybe two or

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three four times after divorces you know

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then she gets to choose which one she

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gets to be with her favorite one so

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basically that means that particular

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husband is really going to hell it’s a

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very complicated well no no no because

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well because the husband see there’s

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going to be this there’s this big tent

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so just do miles a square in each

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direction and if you know up here the

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male of each of your four wives are

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going to end to the family kids etc are

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going to be in a corner of one of these

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in one of the corners of this tent and

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there is a hadith that says your seed

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will be you will be reunited with you

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now it does

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say that your wives well but seed could

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be you know your offspring but then you

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know as let me scholar says well mine

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are throwing the lights too so I just

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don’t understand how an attorney with

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your ex-wife is not help but anyway but

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but the thing is you know you’ve got

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your four lives each of them in a corner

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sixty miles apart they can’t see each

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other and so you can go visit whichever

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one you want to when you want to and

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you’ve also got the 72 luscious bags in

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the middle or the 290 foot one yeah I

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gotta tell you if this goes on more

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online I just don’t know which to

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believe less I mean let’s start with

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this where where did the number 72 come

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from well that’s again I said one

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obscure howdy thing I don’t know what

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hadith it is I’ve never seen it but I’ve

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read that the 14th century scholar even

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cut their quoted that Heath that’s at 72

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– and so you know that’s what all of

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these yo jihad is now they really think

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of 72 virgins

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that’s in the actual Koran it doesn’t it

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describe some kind of enormous wheel

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with couches where them patties all get

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a couch and there’s serviced by all

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these young boys freshest pearls and

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Elsie’s and these infinite number of

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women that Reaver Junaid and bricks it’s

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it’s anyway if it’s fact there is

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something in the Quran about that I mean

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it remembers what penny first I forget

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which verse it is but maybe I’m more

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than one burst but yeah the you know

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it’s not a wheel but when they go to

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heaven you know they’ll have you know be

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sitting on couches and the fruit will be

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dangling so close you know they can just

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reach up and have to move it’s like the

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Roman you know the Roman RCC just you

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know drop the fruit into their mouth and

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even though wine

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alcohol’s forbidden here on earth for

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Muslims if the Quran says they will have

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wine up there in heaven to paradise and

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you have these young young boys that are

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perpetually youthful filling intercom as

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soon as that’s empty and you never get

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drunk no hangover you know and it’s like

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the virgins are because what’s the point

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the point is I think that this was all

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inserted into Islam to convert what we

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started out as a branch of a Jewish

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Christianity to convert it into a

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warrior cult right request that makes

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perfect sense because all this stuff

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sounds like what you would sell to

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adolescent boys in order to get them to

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dawn weapons and go rob caravans for you

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yeah yeah yeah broad broad caravans or

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when you’re number of jihad he’s got

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enough numbers and you could go conquer

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countries and they end up covering most

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of the world you know based on it bit in

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the yeah I guess in the other point you

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know to take away from this that I

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wanted to stress is that they imported

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this whole idea of debates in heaven

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from the Persians from even a pretty

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thorough Austrian form of a person

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religion so you’re from way back

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Zoroastrianism right yes yes I wanted

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mention that in the Iliad of Homer in

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the ad the god Hephaestus also had so

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much as babes up there in heaven with

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him so so maybe it was then it sounds

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like an indo-european thing that was

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imported into Islam I mean the other

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thing this is great idea yeah let’s

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let’s use this and you know 72 or or the

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two big ones it’s different it very much

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sounds like what happens it sort of

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sounds like two things one

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a very long game of telephone where

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these legends get passed from ear to ear

0:13:14.470,0:13:18.730
and person to person very few people can

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write and so you get these distortions

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and reinventions sometimes to a purpose

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and sometimes not yeah and it also

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sounds like what happens when you just

0:13:25.540,0:13:33.100
there’s just no TV there supports what’s

0:13:30.850,0:13:36.040
going on you know and I mean there’s and

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when it’s a win-win situation either you

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defeat the enemy in your quest buddy

0:13:38.640,0:13:44.110
you know and it may be some slaves you

0:13:41.620,0:13:45.670
can take with you or if you get killed

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you know then you get this express

0:13:45.670,0:13:50.530
ticket to heaven and all holy goodies

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they made you know the other thing to

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take away from this is that you know

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right from the beginning you have the

0:13:54.490,0:14:02.250
stratified society word you know certain

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elite males get all these extra goodies

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in heaven that other people don’t get it

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predicted but so if I were to take this

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if you were to take this and sort of sum

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it up a I want to quote a friend of ours

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who’s in in intelligence in the United

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States and the way that he put it was

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Islam is the perfect killing machine and

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the reason for that is all these things

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you’re saying you create this myth where

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there’s you gives people nothing to go

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out there and conquer and wage war in

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order to advance the ideology and now

0:14:43.780,0:14:49.950
correct me now listen here’s here’s a

0:14:46.120,0:14:52.660
question I have as I understand it

0:14:49.950,0:14:55.480
technically jihad isn’t quite like

0:14:52.660,0:14:58.170
offensive jihad isn’t legal and lessers

0:14:55.480,0:15:01.690
of caliphs like if there’s no caliph

0:14:58.170,0:15:04.330
there is only defensive jabbed you have

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to have some kind of cases bail i but

0:15:04.330,0:15:08.800
when there is a caliphate and a sitting

0:15:06.640,0:15:10.960
caliph who’s acknowledged as such is

0:15:08.800,0:15:15.250
when they can go out and conquer

0:15:10.960,0:15:17.350
territory as i understand it you when

0:15:15.250,0:15:19.900
you take booty whether it’s sex slaves

0:15:17.350,0:15:21.820
or money or territory

0:15:19.900,0:15:25.740
you have to kick up I think it’s ten

0:15:21.820,0:15:28.540
percent to the Caliph if that’s the case

0:15:25.740,0:15:33.610
it sounds an awful lot like how the

0:15:28.540,0:15:35.920
Mafia works I think yes probably good

0:15:33.610,0:15:38.680
comparison you know with the Mafia but

0:15:35.920,0:15:41.110
there’s couple of things there one in

0:15:38.680,0:15:44.500
reading the Quran when you understand

0:15:41.110,0:15:46.960
the law of abrogation in that the more

0:15:44.500,0:15:48.850
you know the later verses abrogate the

0:15:46.960,0:15:51.880
earlier verses if there is a

0:15:48.850,0:15:54.940
contradiction and then you recognize

0:15:51.880,0:15:59.260
that the eighth Sura and the ninth Sura

0:15:54.940,0:16:02.380
were the latest that were quote-unquote

0:15:59.260,0:16:06.610
revealed and these are by far the most

0:16:02.380,0:16:11.050
militant and the reading I get from that

0:16:06.610,0:16:14.680
is that jihad has to be is has to be

0:16:11.050,0:16:20.650
continually exercised until the entire

0:16:14.680,0:16:25.030
world is under Islam and say Apple you

0:16:20.650,0:16:28.600
know the intellectual yeah oh he

0:16:25.030,0:16:30.190
actually I did a big paper on masters

0:16:28.600,0:16:32.440
you know my master’s thesis on him

0:16:30.190,0:16:35.170
comparing him with the guy who start the

0:16:32.440,0:16:37.270
Hobby cult but his major work was not

0:16:35.170,0:16:37.890
the so-called milestones it was the

0:16:37.270,0:16:40.960
thing

0:16:37.890,0:16:43.390
Quran means like under the shade of the

0:16:40.960,0:16:47.410
Quran something like that where he did

0:16:43.390,0:16:49.630
huge excesses of the entire Quran and

0:16:47.410,0:16:54.370
you know this seems like six volumes

0:16:49.630,0:16:58.840
each volume is you know like a thousand

0:16:54.370,0:17:02.800
pages and is as long as wide and as tall

0:16:58.840,0:17:06.850
and thick as encyclopedia you know

0:17:02.800,0:17:10.090
enormous encyclopedia and when I did my

0:17:06.850,0:17:14.050
thesis I focused on the 8th and 9th

0:17:10.090,0:17:16.540
syrups and that you know and say of

0:17:14.050,0:17:18.990
Goethe based his entire justice just on

0:17:16.540,0:17:21.220
the Quran not on the hadith or any

0:17:18.990,0:17:24.880
medieval commentaries or anything like

0:17:21.220,0:17:28.209
that entirely on the Quran and he came

0:17:24.880,0:17:30.460
to the conclusion that all Muslims now

0:17:28.209,0:17:32.160
should be and what he called the final

0:17:30.460,0:17:34.320
stage of jihad

0:17:32.160,0:17:37.530
which is continue or against the

0:17:34.320,0:17:45.000
infidels until the entire world is under

0:17:37.530,0:17:47.430
a loss law and the mohammed abu founded

0:17:45.000,0:17:50.220
the Wahhabi called saudi arabia two

0:17:47.430,0:17:52.470
hundred years previously also came to

0:17:50.220,0:17:55.080
the same conclusion working only with

0:17:52.470,0:17:58.550
long okay

0:17:55.080,0:18:02.490
now the part that you said about the

0:17:58.550,0:18:05.760
only the ending only the caliph the

0:18:02.490,0:18:08.820
khalifa can declare the jihad that is in

0:18:05.760,0:18:10.680
the islamic jurisprudence it’s not the

0:18:08.820,0:18:11.550
promise in the jurisprudence to the

0:18:10.680,0:18:13.500
sorry Allah

0:18:11.550,0:18:15.270
well it doesn’t use the word of hadith

0:18:13.500,0:18:18.570
it used in the Arabic version who uses

0:18:15.270,0:18:23.840
the word Imam which can be interpreted

0:18:18.570,0:18:26.850
as the the kata if there is a caliph or

0:18:23.840,0:18:30.540
an imam there’s really any religious

0:18:26.850,0:18:32.010
leader you know in any mosque really so

0:18:30.540,0:18:34.050
well these are kind of open there’s two

0:18:32.010,0:18:38.640
who can declare jihad when there is no

0:18:34.050,0:18:42.150
kala so at the end of the day if you

0:18:38.640,0:18:44.430
wage jihad against the infidel and then

0:18:42.150,0:18:46.620
you go straight to heaven without

0:18:44.430,0:18:51.060
waiting in the grave and you get either

0:18:46.620,0:18:53.070
72 virgins or two 90 feet virgins yes

0:18:51.060,0:18:57.180
and they don’t mean I guess they don’t

0:18:53.070,0:19:02.750
mean a centipede by that right 90 feet

0:18:57.180,0:19:05.790
tall our woman man there’s another

0:19:02.750,0:19:08.310
couple more verses in the both in the

0:19:05.790,0:19:13.050
South people carry and and be Sofia

0:19:08.310,0:19:15.110
Muslim saying that these these quarries

0:19:13.050,0:19:20.480
that’s the Arabic these babes in heaven

0:19:15.110,0:19:24.000
have flesh so pure they are transparent

0:19:20.480,0:19:25.710
that you can assume clear and

0:19:24.000,0:19:28.410
transparent you can see clear to the

0:19:25.710,0:19:32.160
bones so other words don’t look at them

0:19:28.410,0:19:35.670
after they eat let’s go I’m thinking of

0:19:32.160,0:19:38.810
necrophilia they’re very very did well

0:19:35.670,0:19:40.910
there’s a hadith about that too and

0:19:38.810,0:19:43.130
there but I notice if you buy the

0:19:40.910,0:19:45.680
English version of the hadees the one

0:19:43.130,0:19:47.930
about Mohammed and necrophilia is

0:19:45.680,0:19:49.820
actually missing but the numbers

0:19:47.930,0:19:51.020
conspicuously absent too so it says

0:19:49.820,0:19:53.600
something you know something is missing

0:19:51.020,0:19:55.820
a couple more of points here I want to

0:19:53.600,0:19:58.250
make what is that you know mentioned

0:19:55.820,0:20:02.420
earlier that the whole idea of babes in

0:19:58.250,0:20:05.150
heaven originated with who into Aryans

0:20:02.420,0:20:09.770
even before was her last year and well

0:20:05.150,0:20:11.060
somehow passed into Arabic lore there

0:20:09.770,0:20:13.520
around me the Arabs were settled in

0:20:11.060,0:20:15.500
Mesopotamia you know for actually before

0:20:13.520,0:20:18.320
Islam so let’s they probably picked it

0:20:15.500,0:20:23.780
up from the Persians at that time but

0:20:18.320,0:20:28.490
the word in Old Persian was powering

0:20:23.780,0:20:32.270
days that that became a photo booths in

0:20:28.490,0:20:35.600
Arabic and in our English is paradise so

0:20:32.270,0:20:38.030
even the word for paradise came from

0:20:35.600,0:20:43.010
Persian and so again this totally

0:20:38.030,0:20:44.690
destroys the myth that the put on wood

0:20:43.010,0:20:47.330
and every word in it was pre-existing

0:20:44.690,0:20:51.110
you know with off with all off you know

0:20:47.330,0:20:53.060
for all time okay that’s one point now

0:20:51.110,0:20:54.980
the other point I’m also the word hoary

0:20:53.060,0:21:00.950
sounds suspiciously similar to an

0:20:54.980,0:21:03.470
English word well actually it’s a hardy

0:21:00.950,0:21:11.600
it’s hard gets that kind of all that

0:21:03.470,0:21:16.100
some breathy age but in Aramaic they

0:21:11.600,0:21:17.750
have a word Cora which means current

0:21:16.100,0:21:19.790
Emmet in English it was it became

0:21:17.750,0:21:23.840
translated as current which is a reason

0:21:19.790,0:21:27.440
now many years back there was a air

0:21:23.840,0:21:32.900
makes car that wrote a paper about this

0:21:27.440,0:21:37.880
saying that the Hori in the Quran is the

0:21:32.900,0:21:40.880
same as the the kurta our currents in

0:21:37.880,0:21:43.040
Aramaic and therefore what these guys

0:21:40.880,0:21:46.190
are getting in heaven are raisin 72 race

0:21:43.040,0:21:48.680
and settlers but that makes no because

0:21:46.190,0:21:51.380
the Quran itself definitely says that

0:21:48.680,0:21:53.270
the jihadi will be wedded to them

0:21:51.380,0:21:55.850
you know they’re round breasted and all

0:21:53.270,0:21:57.470
this stuff’s alright one more thing you

0:21:55.850,0:21:59.570
leave I want to leave your audience with

0:21:57.470,0:22:02.240
this one more little tidbits you know

0:21:59.570,0:22:06.500
these suicide bombers blow themselves up

0:22:02.240,0:22:09.620
yes knowing that they get this immediate

0:22:06.500,0:22:11.300
free Express ticket to heaven don’t have

0:22:09.620,0:22:12.860
to wait for the you yell yeah on last

0:22:11.300,0:22:14.780
days all this stuff and there’s 72

0:22:12.860,0:22:17.870
virgins are waiting breathlessly for

0:22:14.780,0:22:25.370
them they wrap their penises with tin

0:22:17.870,0:22:27.500
foil right bits and they need some

0:22:25.370,0:22:30.100
Obamacare when I get there as long as

0:22:27.500,0:22:32.750
the piece of equipment is still intact

0:22:30.100,0:22:34.340
ready for action when they get there I

0:22:32.750,0:22:36.260
have to say they’re either very very

0:22:34.340,0:22:40.070
poor bombs or they must have

0:22:36.260,0:22:41.510
extraordinarily good tin foil it doesn’t

0:22:40.070,0:22:44.780
strike me as a very sick but you know I

0:22:41.510,0:22:46.340
also noticed that that all the best

0:22:44.780,0:22:48.920
suicide bombers appear to be gone

0:22:46.340,0:22:50.660
because lately the bombings have been

0:22:48.920,0:22:53.150
done by just leaving bombs around in

0:22:50.660,0:22:55.460
Leon yesterday yesterday the day before

0:22:53.150,0:22:56.990
a bomb went off and of course we don’t

0:22:55.460,0:23:00.620
know yet that it was a Muslim but you

0:22:56.990,0:23:02.030
know the bookies say that the bookies

0:23:00.620,0:23:05.930
were giving our thousand-to-one it was

0:23:02.030,0:23:08.150
and he trained in France and Lyon France

0:23:05.930,0:23:10.700
yes and of course the guy is nowhere to

0:23:08.150,0:23:14.120
be found and they pink washed his photo

0:23:10.700,0:23:15.860
but you know I’ve got odds that it was a

0:23:14.120,0:23:18.590
Muslim but it’s interesting that they’re

0:23:15.860,0:23:19.910
not really they’re sort of they seem to

0:23:18.590,0:23:22.040
be out of the ones that are ready to

0:23:19.910,0:23:28.540
blow themselves to pieces I don’t know I

0:23:22.040,0:23:32.360
don’t know why that would be random for

0:23:28.540,0:23:36.260
suicide is against the precept of Islam

0:23:32.360,0:23:38.000
however these young to modern scholars

0:23:36.260,0:23:41.330
that are pushing these guys into doing

0:23:38.000,0:23:44.780
this say that well you know if you’re if

0:23:41.330,0:23:47.000
you kill some come far some infidel then

0:23:44.780,0:23:48.950
you’re fighting for Allah and they

0:23:47.000,0:23:50.270
always forget about what you’re doing

0:23:48.950,0:23:52.960
this you know then you’re a martyr

0:23:50.270,0:23:56.000
you’re Saeed you go say to heaven oh uh

0:23:52.960,0:23:57.740
you know but then again I mean you start

0:23:56.000,0:24:00.140
to run out of manpower so maybe they’re

0:23:57.740,0:24:02.030
starting your wise up and actually using

0:24:00.140,0:24:03.320
remote-controlled bombs and stuff like

0:24:02.030,0:24:06.320
that you know every

0:24:03.320,0:24:07.670
I discuss Islam with somebody I really

0:24:06.320,0:24:10.640
feel like I need to go take a shower

0:24:07.670,0:24:12.350
afterwards thank you very much for for

0:24:10.640,0:24:14.150
taking the time and the effort to learn

0:24:12.350,0:24:16.340
this stuff let alone explaining to us

0:24:14.150,0:24:17.330
because wow wouldn’t it be great to be

0:24:16.340,0:24:20.060
doing something else

0:24:17.330,0:24:22.250
thank you very much Barry web NSA

0:24:20.060,0:24:23.600
Arabist and translator will speak to you

0:24:22.250,0:24:28.450
again very soon

0:24:23.600,0:24:28.450
[Music]

0:24:28.570,0:24:32.950
gracias baba

0:24:35.430,0:24:40.109
[Music]

0:25:10.300,0:25:13.460
[Music]

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