December 9, 2019

Brad Johnson on the Break it Down Show

 

 


hey everybody its PJ Turner executive
00:02
producer and host of the break it down
00:04
show today’s guest is a guy named Brad
00:06
Johnson who was the station chief for
00:09
the CIA and that means that this is a
00:11
spy versus spy show what’s cool about
00:14
this one is we get a chance to examine
00:15
some real-life scenarios specifically we
00:19
talked about we talked about the Hillary
00:22
Clinton email situation and the what
00:24
about ism and how that’s kind of a not a
00:27
very good way to represent that dianne
00:29
feinstein’s chinese chief of staff slash
00:32
limo driver as well as how we
00:35
investigate all of these things whether
00:37
it’s impeachment with the president or
00:40
Joe Biden and his son so we didand a lot
00:44
of those things brad has an organization
00:47
called Americans for intelligence reform
00:50
he is the president of it and you can
00:52
find more about it at Intel reformed org
00:55
and their idea is that a strong and
00:58
effective CIA is actually absolutely
01:00
absolutely fundamental to u.s. national
01:03
security and safety for our citizens
01:05
you’re gonna love this episode it pushes
01:08
some buttons I’ll be ready you’re gonna
01:10
learn some things about how field
01:11
operators operate and how the guys that
01:13
guide them also operate standard things
01:18
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02:00
wherever you’re out there have a great
02:02
holiday season whatever holiday you
02:04
celebrate in whatever country you’re in
02:06
I just think it’s great that this is the
02:08
time of year we all sort of slow down
02:10
recognize one another regardless of
02:12
anything else and
02:13
say have a happy holiday have a Merry
02:16
Christmas Happy Hanukkah happy Kwanzaa
02:18
happy Festivus it’s all of these things
02:21
that make us who we are and unite us as
02:24
people this can be great show you’re
02:26
gonna love it here so Brad Johnson Lions
02:29
Rock productions
02:32
this is jay mohr that group this is
02:35
jordan hassan Dexter from the Oscar
02:37
Maithili Sebastian yo this is Rick Murad
02:39
Stewart Copa this is Mitchell s is handy
02:41
somebody there’s a skunk Baxter Gabby
02:43
Reese is Robyn hey this is John Leon
02:44
Guerrero hey and this is Pete a Turner
02:48
hi this is Brad Johnson our president of
02:51
Americans for intelligence reform in
02:53
charge and you’re listening to the break
02:55
it down show spy versus spy style here
03:00
we go
03:01
I got Brad on the show with me and you
03:03
know I like to try to take the reality
03:05
of folks that collect information and
03:07
bring it to you because it turns out
03:10
there’s not always a mole at the very
03:12
top of the CIA or the top of army Intel
03:15
it’s usually much more complex than that
03:17
but let’s let’s look into Brad and what
03:21
he does in so fright if you would just
03:23
kind of give us a basic bio
03:24
on you know look I mean being an office
03:28
chief overseas is an incredibly sexy job
03:31
on paper let’s talk about some of that
03:33
but just give us a kind of a basic
03:34
background of double diving hey this is
03:36
PJ Turner from the break it down show
03:37
checking in real quick to ask you this
03:40
John Scott and I all support save the
03:42
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03:44
effort and our money
03:45
each month we give a small amount do the
03:47
same with us go to save the brave dot
03:49
org click on the donate tab pick an
03:52
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I stand behind these folks thank you so
03:57
much let’s get back to the show but just
03:59
give us a kind of a basic background and
04:01
double dive in okay sounds good
04:03
my background was intelligence
04:06
operations at the CIA which is your
04:08
overseas cadre that runs the espionage
04:11
arm of things and so I spent out of a
04:14
25-year career about almost 20 years of
04:16
it overseas I tried to avoid the
04:19
headquarters duty as much as possible
04:22
we’re preferring to be out in the field
04:24
and for field cadre uh
04:27
basically a chief of station which is
04:29
the head of a CIA office oversees
04:33
equivalent of I guess the captain
04:35
ownership for Navy
04:36
CA is actually largely built on Navy
04:38
traditions rather than army even though
04:40
it was OSS
04:42
came out of was led by the army so that
04:44
a lot of the
04:45
powers were actually built on ships
04:47
captain’s authorities so that was that
04:50
was my background was after multiple
04:52
times as the chief of station and as I
04:54
said most of my career was overseas when
04:57
you’re a chief of station are you in the
05:00
field collecting are you running the the
05:02
day-to-day operations of the office
05:05
well you know all of the above you know
05:09
things have changed a lot in the last
05:10
few years particularly under former
05:12
director of the CIA John Brennan where
05:14
he did what he called the modernization
05:17
but essentially what he did was dissolve
05:20
the operations division the operations
05:22
cadre and and created sort of one size
05:26
fits all everybody does everything sort
05:28
of methodology so he bragged about this
05:32
on NPR that what we’ve done is turned to
05:35
our overseas partners and in partnership
05:38
with them trying to accomplish the
05:40
things that we need to do rather than
05:42
doing the traditional espionage role of
05:45
finding people that work that tell
05:47
secrets if you will
05:48
the spies what we would call the spies
05:50
who are reporting information secretly
05:53
to the United States and the United
05:54
States only so in that role my role
05:57
certainly you’re always doing things
05:59
because there’s always a certain level
06:01
of cooperation with these liaison
06:03
services with whom you deal our overseas
06:05
partners if you will so there’s always
06:07
operations of overseas with different
06:10
countries and organizations has always
06:11
been robust and that has always been
06:13
important in fact we just saw that where
06:15
we just had the recent success in
06:18
getting Baghdadi that was done in large
06:21
part through a liaison relationship a
06:23
partnership or overseas for in
06:26
partnership with the Kurdish
06:28
intelligence service so it came and has
06:32
succeeded and will continue to succeed
06:35
in many ways I guess my gripe and one of
06:37
the reasons for the founding of this
06:39
organization was because of the
06:41
disillusion of the operations cadre that
06:45
runs espionage and what’s done today is
06:48
really no longer espionage and again
06:50
that was something that John Brennan
06:51
bragged about although others have now
06:53
tried to disseminate and cover-up for
06:55
that he did away with that and the
06:58
training in the
06:59
ability I mean this is a highly highly
07:01
specialized field of endeavor and OSS
07:06
learned a lot of those lessons through
07:08
literally blood sweat and tears a lot of
07:11
people died along that that way learning
07:13
the lessons it had to be learned and
07:15
then that was all turned over to the CIA
07:17
and many of the personnel came over from
07:19
OSS to to you could certainly say it’s a
07:22
continuation CIA’s a continuation of OSS
07:24
and a lot of those people came over in
07:26
the training and lessons learned we’re
07:27
all built upon over the next decades all
07:30
of which was just flushed down the
07:32
toilet and spit on by by John Brennan
07:35
who just shows his incompetence and lack
07:37
of understanding and ability to
07:40
prioritize was was demonstrated by this
07:42
this modernization program that he did
07:45
now some good came out of the
07:46
modernization program and the technical
07:48
fields and so on but everything was
07:50
overwhelmed by the stupidity of having
07:52
done away with operations cadre oh man
07:56
that is a lot when when folks like
07:59
Brennan come in and they run the
08:00
organization how I mean they know how to
08:02
run organizations I think Leon Panetta
08:05
didn’t he run the CIA for a while too
08:08
yes I mean how does he compare with
08:11
someone like Brennan Leon’s nodding a
08:13
collector he wasn’t from the IC in
08:15
general does he compare favorably well
08:19
except the same ilk you you essentially
08:23
I mean we’re kind of getting into the
08:24
philosophical realms with some of this
08:27
but essentially people who are leftist
08:31
in philosophy the Democrats today are
08:33
very leftist in their philosophy but
08:36
socialists here in the United States
08:38
have always been anti espionage and it’s
08:43
so it’s always been something that
08:44
they’ve undertaken to sort of damage or
08:47
do in without recognition of just how
08:49
precisely important that is in the
08:51
scheme of things for national security
08:53
you take away our information and and
08:56
you’re just you’re so badly damaging us
08:58
by the risk that’s out there if we had
09:00
had a well organized fully robust
09:03
intelligence collection program I think
09:05
it’s realistic to suspect that we could
09:08
have stopped 9/11 for example where we
09:10
were making more active
09:13
efforts to penetrate all of these
09:14
organizations that are enemies of the
09:16
United States so if you look back in
09:19
history yet you know after the fall of
09:21
the wall and where the Soviet Union
09:23
essentially disintegrated
09:25
there were congressmen Democrats of
09:27
course who called for the you know
09:29
dissolution of the CIA so it’s always
09:31
been something they’ve sort of been
09:32
after and it’s specific to the espionage
09:35
end of things they just don’t like it
09:37
philosophically where the conservatives
09:40
and generally the Republicans but more
09:43
kind of the conservatives and the
09:44
national security people tended to you
09:48
just be more readily understanding of
09:52
the need for good espionage because of
09:55
the value of the information it provides
09:57
that impacts US national security so
10:00
it’s it’s just one of those things it’s
10:02
kind of a philosophical thing so former
10:04
leaders that were picked by Republican
10:06
presidents tended to do a better job and
10:09
the ones picked by the Democratic
10:11
presidents tend to do a poorer job
10:13
because of their philosophical
10:15
commitment and for example Jimmy Carter
10:19
Jimmy Carter probably was was the one
10:22
when understands field turn at the time
10:24
who is his director of the CIA probably
10:27
did the most really kind of undermined
10:30
the capabilities of the CIA and he did a
10:32
RIF it was known as a black Thursday
10:35
because it took place on that day which
10:36
is the end of the pay period in federal
10:38
government and he let go a couple
10:41
thousand people just sent him out the
10:43
door RIF is a reduction in force in
10:45
government terms next day and roughly
10:48
equal number of people walked out the
10:49
door and just said screw this and lot
10:51
and they can all retire so under
10:54
President Reagan that was attempted to
10:56
be recovered and rebuilt and and there
10:59
was a you know substantial rekindling of
11:02
capability at the CIA but then under
11:05
Clinton that again was turned around and
11:07
you started to see all this separation
11:09
where the FBI and CIA weren’t allowed to
11:11
communicate and and I would argue that
11:13
as a result we see these problems like
11:15
9/11 and that has never really been
11:17
repaired and it was finally just done
11:19
away with the capabilities of the CIA
11:21
were just horrendously damaged under
11:23
specifically the former President Obama
11:26
and
11:27
at the hand of John Brennan former
11:28
director John Brennan who admitted that
11:31
he had voted for the Communist Party
11:33
previously and was apparently very
11:37
friendly to to the ideas of Islamic
11:41
extremism and Islamists and himself has
11:45
is supposed to be a a Muslim so you just
11:49
had a kind of an unfriendly audience in
11:52
charge of intelligence and it’s it’s
11:55
just that it’s something that’s been
11:56
repeated and repeated and repeated and
11:58
at least in modern history how often do
12:02
you need that that recalibration though
12:04
I mean because look if we’re here to be
12:06
critical of of conservatives they’ll
12:08
take it too far in their direction
12:10
whether it’s they’re too hawkish or
12:11
they’re you know we complain a lot about
12:14
the Russians meddling in our in our
12:16
elections but let’s you know you and I
12:18
both know like we we love to meddle in
12:20
other people’s elections like we we love
12:22
to talk about it openly in the newspaper
12:23
so but we don’t like what happens to us
12:26
what do we need that that recalibration
12:29
back towards a more suspicious a more
12:32
left-leaning leader to to kind of force
12:35
the the agency not to hobble it because
12:38
you know we don’t really want to do that
12:40
but but what we kind of do well a couple
12:48
things on all of that I mean you
12:50
actually touched a lot of very
12:51
interesting and important points first
12:53
of all the people interfering in our
12:55
elections and us interfering others
12:57
elections quite quite common it’s it’s a
13:02
normal thing I would say in fact and
13:04
that that goes on in the world and
13:06
different countries would like to see
13:08
different governments come to power and
13:10
other countries in neighboring countries
13:12
and certainly the Obama administration
13:14
was very active in that the President
13:16
Obama traveled to Israel and and took
13:18
money and and was actively supporting
13:20
one party over another party he was very
13:23
very active in and his dislike for the
13:28
Netanyahu and and him being the Prime
13:32
Minister of Israel so I mean it very
13:34
active very open
13:35
there was no secrets it was discussed in
13:37
the press openly but say Russia coming
13:40
in and interfere
13:40
with our elections or China coming in or
13:43
Cuba much smaller country but
13:45
nevertheless very active they all they
13:48
all have always done that you know
13:50
following World War two this was
13:52
everybody’s been doing it all this time
13:53
there’s many defectors that have come
13:55
out through the years and written books
13:56
about it you can go back and look and
13:58
see what they’ve done they’ve all been
13:59
very active trying to find people that
14:03
would support their perspective in the
14:05
press and they’ve been active at that
14:06
for you know the last 70 80 years so
14:09
they’ve had a lot of successes and so we
14:11
see a lot of what I would consider enemy
14:14
propaganda be you know picked up and
14:16
used in printed or reported on in the US
14:19
press it’s quite common so they’re doing
14:21
influence but now this is all changed
14:23
and we’ve kind of come to a new page
14:25
what happened is the the United States
14:27
legalized and codified actually legally
14:31
interfering with US elections and u.s.
14:34
policy the formation of US policy that’s
14:37
why when I saw the original report that
14:40
Russia had supposedly interfered with US
14:44
elections and then somehow you’ve been
14:46
in cooperating with Trump and the Trump
14:47
campaign I knew that was all false
14:49
instantly and very easy to know for
14:52
anyone who knows you know what kind of
14:53
understands the situation you know you
14:56
instantly know that was all quickly made
14:58
up the reason is how the system got
15:00
caught fighted is called lobbying it is
15:03
perfectly legal for Russia to spend
15:06
millions of dollars a month which they
15:09
do here in the United States to pursue
15:12
policies that are their interests which
15:14
they do so does China and so does any
15:17
other country in the world that has
15:19
enough money to do that
15:21
and millions and millions of dollars
15:23
I’ve spent here in Washington DC area on
15:25
K Street getting these lobbyists to try
15:28
and influence policy so it’s been
15:29
legalized so why on earth would Russia
15:32
ever try to recruit somebody in that in
15:35
the Trump campaign and something that
15:38
would be difficult to control difficult
15:40
to keep secret be extraordinarily
15:42
expensive what is far cheaper just to do
15:44
it legally through a lobbyist so it just
15:47
it just made no sense from the very
15:49
GetGo so I mean I would say our problem
15:51
today is that we’ve legalized and I’m
15:53
trying
15:54
Russia India and whoever wants to is
15:56
taking full advantage of it so if you
15:58
want to address that issue there’s the
16:00
place and you know to everybody here at
16:03
me she knows that everybody in the
16:04
Capitol Senate and congressmen they all
16:06
know that that’s the case but yet it
16:09
doesn’t get talked about publicly so
16:10
it’s it’s just one of those little
16:12
quirks of Washington DC establishment
16:14
yeah I mean a lot of of the things that
16:17
are important in terms of these big
16:18
decisions seating a Supreme Court
16:21
justice that became a political you know
16:24
partisan show
16:26
where nobody got what they want we
16:28
didn’t we didn’t get to understand who
16:30
Brett Kavanaugh was if he should or
16:33
shouldn’t be a justice we got to see
16:35
people grand standing on the stage
16:37
instead of focusing on you know the very
16:39
important task of giving someone a
16:41
lifetime seat on well you know one of
16:44
the three branches of our of our
16:46
government and ended you know now we
16:48
have this impeachment thing and right or
16:51
wrong if the president did something
16:52
wrong let’s do it let’s open Lee hear it
16:54
let’s have the case out call witnesses
16:56
let him stand in front of his accusers
16:57
call witnesses and and let’s get through
17:00
it and see what the evidence is but look
17:02
as a fellow collector as a guy who’s
17:05
gone out and done things I don’t I don’t
17:08
see evidence that I would be confident
17:10
have all the all the reports everything
17:12
but I don’t see evidence there that that
17:14
this has actually happened I understand
17:16
folks that are upset about it and don’t
17:18
want quid pro quo but are we are we now
17:21
torpedoing the entire election because
17:24
of a partisan thing you know trying to
17:27
do that because if the president has to
17:29
go down then doesn’t also Joe Biden have
17:33
to go down and then isn’t that the
17:34
president’s job like if if someone’s
17:37
using their political office to gather
17:39
favor with another personal favor with
17:42
another government there’s a real
17:44
problem there I would like to know the
17:47
answers to both of these things I
17:48
suppose I think it’s actually fairly
17:50
straightforward I I don’t see you know I
17:53
don’t find anything to be too tricky
17:54
it’s it’s misreported and manipulated
17:57
purposefully for political goals but if
18:00
you just sit back and look at the actual
18:02
facts you have hunter Biden who is a
18:04
drug addict emotionally very unstable
18:06
just you
18:07
for example you know his brother dies he
18:11
divorces his wife marries his brother’s
18:12
widow divorces her and marry some girl
18:16
that forces her then marry some other
18:17
girl II just barely met so you’ve got
18:19
this emotionally unstable former drug
18:22
addict who has zero experience in the
18:24
energy industry and something gets hired
18:26
to be on the board to the tune of
18:27
eighty-three thousand dollars a month
18:29
now they’re not going to do that out of
18:32
their goodness of their heart they’re
18:34
doing it for a reason and we know that
18:36
that for sure some of that reason
18:39
included access to the vice president
18:41
because we’ve seen the photographs being
18:43
reported where the two top executives at
18:45
this energy company hunter and Joe Biden
18:47
were both all we’re all playing golf
18:49
together so we know those those
18:51
conversations took place then the other
18:55
half of that suddenly Joe Biden goes to
18:57
Ukraine and tells Ukraine Ukraine fire
19:00
this prosecutor that’s investigating the
19:03
company where my son gets paid eighty
19:05
three thousand dollars a month or
19:07
withholding this aid so I mean that’s
19:09
all facts that all of them have admitted
19:12
to there is ZERO question in there of
19:14
interpretation it’s it’s hunter Biden
19:17
has talked about all of these facts the
19:19
photographs have come up of the meetings
19:20
Joe Biden himself talked about insisting
19:23
that that prosecutor be fired and that
19:25
he was the one investigating the company
19:27
where his son work so all of that is
19:29
basic facts so President Trump is
19:32
responsible to fund to go after
19:34
corruption especially at that level and
19:37
just so blatantly corrupt so he was
19:40
absolutely within his duty to have done
19:43
that now but I don’t think that’s the
19:45
essence of what we seeing is he
19:47
happening with this charmella Eric
19:48
charmella guy I think that what happened
19:51
with him is not so much to target
19:54
president Trump although that’s a
19:56
secondary goal and kind of cream on the
19:59
side if you will and to let them kind of
20:01
bring up the same sort of argument that
20:03
oh yeah crime problem is corrupt they
20:06
tried to quid pro quo got rid of that
20:08
and now they’re calling it corruption I
20:11
think is the term that’s now it and each
20:12
time they they just try something new to
20:14
see what sticks and the nothing sticks
20:16
they move on to the next one but if you
20:18
look at Eric charmella he was
20:21
buddy that in college was a protester
20:23
speaks Arabic very Pro Islamic radicals
20:27
and was was at a a demonstration in the
20:31
streets supporting a radical professor
20:33
who was you know Islamic extremist he
20:36
got picked up then by the CIA and was
20:38
just skyrocketed to the top with John
20:41
Brennan John Renan Brennan then with the
20:44
Obama administration put em at the
20:46
National Security Council which is the
20:48
White House and he for a while was an
20:51
analyst working on Ukraine Russia issues
20:54
and so had some background in Ukraine so
20:57
kind of just evolved into being this
20:59
Ukraine expert now he was on these trips
21:02
with Joe Biden he was at the meetings
21:05
here that that Joe Biden had in
21:07
Washington DC with the Ukrainian people
21:09
so he was involved in all this all the
21:11
way along which you know talk about
21:13
irony Joe Biden’s son gets the payoff
21:17
which it looks like that Joe Biden you
21:20
know does the deed and gets this guy
21:22
fired and and this chair Abella doesn’t
21:25
look at that as something he needs to
21:26
report but Trump asked to have this
21:29
clearly questionable act investigated
21:32
and that’s what he reports as a
21:34
whistleblower I mean the irony of that
21:36
is just astounding so this guy this guy
21:39
is is connected back into that formerly
21:41
worked for Joe Biden formerly worked for
21:43
the Obama White House close associate of
21:46
John Brennan and all of this stuff
21:48
always seems to lead back to John
21:50
Brennan all the stuff that we saw
21:52
overseas with the Italians being
21:54
involved with putting this case together
21:57
that was used to get the FISA warrant
21:59
all of these connections every time
22:01
something new comes up there’s always a
22:03
connection to John Brennan so my
22:05
personal theory on it is is that when
22:07
all this comes out when all of its
22:08
surfaces a lot of the roads are going to
22:10
just simply lead back to John Brennan as
22:12
having been the spider at the center of
22:14
the web okay man it’s so many so many so
22:20
many things to ask about let me just
22:21
start with some real like ground truth
22:23
basic stuff as well as as a station boss
22:26
one of your one of your clandestine
22:29
operators comes up and says I’ve got a
22:31
source who basically you know
22:34
we’ll use the whistleblower as a source
22:36
but he describes this person to you in a
22:38
dossier form like they didn’t hear
22:40
directly what they said but there could
22:43
be something here this person seems like
22:45
they’ve got exploitable information is
22:48
is that for me if I’m running a CI team
22:51
in my end I’m like ah Act can we find
22:54
somebody better you know like is there
22:56
can you cooperate I want to triangulate
22:58
the information I’ve got there’s no
23:01
question whatsoever I mean and this this
23:03
whistleblower information had precisely
23:05
that done to it it was moved up the
23:07
chain if you will chain of command and
23:10
was turned over to DOJ DOJ took a look
23:12
at it go the heck is this this is
23:15
useless and so nothing went forward from
23:17
that point and that is when the
23:19
information came out that shift who’s
23:22
running the committee doing the
23:24
investigation Adam Schiff was
23:26
coordinating with chair Abela
23:29
and once that surfaced that’s when chair
23:32
Abela kind of disappeared but you know
23:34
that’s that’s person once Adam Schiff
23:37
saw that this was going nowhere stepped
23:40
in coordinated directly with the
23:41
so-called whistleblower and that’s how
23:44
it all took off and became public now
23:46
and then Adam Schiff was initially
23:48
saying this guy has to come testify
23:49
we’re gonna put him out here in front of
23:50
everybody once the news surfaced that he
23:53
had previously coordinated with Eric
23:55
karbala then then that ended then he
23:57
didn’t want that apparently to come out
23:59
and so now this guy has to be protected
24:01
at all costs except etc even though his
24:03
name has been bandied about for weeks
24:05
everybody knows who it is a lot of the
24:07
mainstream media is they they mentioned
24:09
his name but they they hesitate to
24:12
confirm it was him even though it’s been
24:13
confirmed by many many other sources and
24:15
reported on by lots of other people it’s
24:17
still they’re still hesitant okay so and
24:20
you know I’m not a political guy but
24:22
these are the things that bugged me
24:23
because people like us have to go out
24:25
and dig up dig through what these things
24:27
are in real time and in situations that
24:29
are extremely dangerous quite often to
24:31
everybody involved so let me back up
24:35
real quick it seems like we can’t get a
24:39
straightforward investigation on anybody
24:42
working at the very top of the federal
24:44
government and and I’m pointing my
24:46
finger right now squarely
24:48
Secretary Clinton because look this is
24:52
what I understand about top-secret SDI
24:54
it doesn’t belong on a server outside of
24:57
a closed Network that’s very specific
24:59
everybody knows the rules and one of the
25:03
fail-safes is that if you don’t know the
25:05
rules you’re still guilty so when you
25:08
come forward and you say I didn’t care
25:11
for this information I admit it and I
25:13
take responsibility and then there’s no
25:17
conviction of anybody how do I take
25:21
anything any of those folks regardless a
25:24
party how do I take any of them
25:27
seriously I couldn’t agree with you more
25:29
I think that’s a fabulous and extremely
25:31
important point and let’s go back and
25:34
look at some of the basic facts on this
25:35
one
25:38
former director FBI director Comey came
25:41
out with his infamous famous speech in
25:44
July of 2016 and in that speech he would
25:48
that was where he said oh yeah Hillary
25:50
Clinton did this this this was extremely
25:52
careless in her handling of classified
25:53
documents but no prosecutor in the
25:56
United States would go after on this
25:58
case it’s just not worth doing there was
25:59
no intent blah blah blah well a couple
26:02
things one the first of all when Comey
26:03
started talking about Clinton’s intent
26:05
which is precisely the point that you
26:07
made intent is not required you know
26:10
there have it at home or you do not
26:12
right if you have it at home you are
26:13
guilty even if it was an accident you
26:16
are guilty so that wants Comey said that
26:19
you know he’s lying
26:21
because he knows that he was director of
26:23
the FBI he’s a highly familiar with all
26:25
of those things so now the other part of
26:27
it one of the things come he said there
26:29
was
26:29
hey this is PA Turner from Lions Rock
26:32
productions we create podcasts around
26:34
here and if you your brand or your
26:36
company want to figure out how to do a
26:38
podcast just talk to me I’ll give you
26:40
the advice on the right gear the best
26:42
plan and show you how to tick a podcast
26:43
that makes sense for you that’s
26:45
sustainable that’s scalable and fun hit
26:48
me up at Pete and break it down show com
26:50
let me help I want to hear about it now
26:52
the other part of it one of the things
26:54
come he said there was he said there
26:57
were numbers of strings of commute
27:01
ocation containing classified document
27:04
and he made a comment like there were 12
27:05
or 15 of them each containing several
27:07
hundred classified documents so you kind
27:10
of just guesstimate and you’re probably
27:12
talking between 2,500 and 3,000
27:16
classified documents now I gotta say
27:18
that’s a that’s a lot of classified
27:20
documents to have released essentially
27:22
out into the public
27:23
now the FBI then did an IG an inspector
27:27
general report looking at all of this
27:29
they went to the FBI agent who did was
27:34
investigating the computer the laptop
27:36
computer that was Anthony Weiner’s that
27:38
contained all these classified documents
27:40
that guy reported to the FBI IG that
27:44
James Comey had misled the American
27:46
people and was off by the number of
27:48
classified documents by a factor of 10
27:51
Wow that means we’re no longer talking
27:53
about 2,500 or 3,000 we’re talking about
27:57
25,000 or 30,000 classified documents I
28:01
mean that is just absolutely completely
28:04
out of control one more a step to this
28:07
there was a second that computer then
28:09
was sent to Quantico which is where the
28:11
FBI does its forensic work and a second
28:14
IG report was done the second IG report
28:17
reconfirmed what was mentioned in the
28:19
first IG report that there was a second
28:22
area of memory that had not been
28:24
exploited that appeared to contain an
28:27
equal number of documents so some
28:30
portion of which would then be
28:32
classified so we we don’t know there
28:35
would probably be some overlap of
28:37
documents within these two memories but
28:39
now we’re probably talking you know
28:40
maybe as many as 60 or 70 thousand
28:43
classified documents now say one
28:46
classified document has got lots of
28:48
people in trouble there’s people doing
28:50
jail time over one classified document
28:53
and so we’re looking at perhaps as many
28:57
as 70,000 classified documents possibly
29:00
more that the Hillary Clinton team
29:04
because to do that it takes a team it’s
29:07
not something mom person would just do
29:08
especially somebody that Killary Clinton
29:10
who was a busy and co-read you know
29:13
doesn’t know that much about this sort
29:15
of thing
29:15
so you know 70,000 documents are out
29:18
there nothing is done whatsoever State
29:21
Department about two weeks ago came out
29:23
with their IG report that basically said
29:25
well there were 31 security violations
29:29
which have been adjudicated adjudicated
29:31
just as government T’s for you know
29:33
whoever was supposed to get punished for
29:34
a violation got punished meaning they
29:36
got a letter in their file or whatever
29:38
those are the sorts of things that could
29:40
happen nobody was fired or they would
29:42
have reported that so there was some
29:44
sort of administrative action taken
29:47
against whoever was held responsible for
29:49
those 31 security violations which is
29:52
essentially few slaps on the wrist and
29:54
nothing happened for 70,000 perhaps
29:57
70,000 classified documents and one
30:00
final thing on that and I’ll let it rest
30:03
a bit but the way that that has to be
30:06
done it’s a closed system precisely as
30:07
you said so on it on a classified
30:10
computer system you have the computers
30:13
pre-screening your keyboard you’re not
30:15
able to put a thumb drive in there and
30:18
make copies of everything you know take
30:20
you share to another computer that’s not
30:23
on the classified system there’s no way
30:24
to connect up so the way that you get
30:27
these documents off is to print them
30:30
everybody can print and those are all
30:33
carefully kept track of so all of those
30:35
documents that were printed off the
30:37
government knows who printed them off
30:38
exactly the moment when they did it
30:40
whose computer you know who authorized
30:42
that all of those things are of record
30:44
clear record and those records are still
30:47
there so we know who did it
30:49
but you know that’s not followed up on
30:51
State Department says there’s no problem
30:52
there there’s no know they’re there and
30:55
so you print that off now one of the
30:57
things that Hillary Clinton has made a
30:59
big deal out of saying was well they
31:01
weren’t class marked classified at the
31:03
time well that’s all correct so what
31:06
happened when you print off a classified
31:08
document it has a header and a footer
31:09
both the header in the footer
31:11
give the classification of the document
31:14
so somebody had to cut those off scan it
31:19
and put it into an unclassified system
31:21
and then start emailing them out and I
31:24
would say that this is what Jake what
31:28
James
31:29
Comey said in that July 2016 speech that
31:32
all this was done to make things easy
31:34
for Hillary Clinton so I would say that
31:37
pretty clearly what has happened is her
31:39
team said about to do all of this and
31:41
they would cut off the header and footer
31:42
scan the document and then they would
31:44
send it out to her blackberry which she
31:46
has many many photographs of her
31:47
flipping through her blackberry looking
31:49
at things but no one has ever looked at
31:52
the damage
31:52
Donna damage assessment seven we don’t
31:55
even know the number of classified
31:56
documents said they were out there were
31:58
there 70,000 was it a hundred and fifty
32:00
thousand was it 30,000 nobody knows as
32:03
far as I know how many documents are
32:05
actually out there the audience for a
32:08
minute and kind of give them some
32:09
context on some of this so look a cop
32:12
secret sauce informations processed in a
32:14
specific facility on occasion it can
32:18
happen somewhere else but there is if
32:19
you’re going to be working day to day
32:20
you go home to a thing called a skiff
32:22
and skiff stands for really top-secret
32:24
happens here if someone walks into
32:27
that building they don’t just walk
32:29
directly into the skiff they walk into a
32:30
secure checkpoint you sign in you
32:33
surrender your phone if you’ve never
32:35
been there before they likely make you
32:36
read a form to say you understand you
32:38
walk into an area where they’re
32:40
processing key SSCI and you can’t se
32:42
Aiye means special compartment
32:44
information so you can’t even get that
32:46
information unless you have specific
32:47
permission so there’s all these layers
32:50
because it turns out we know how to
32:52
protect top secret if everybody plays by
32:54
the rules and so just like Brad is
32:57
saying all of these things are laid out
32:59
everybody knows that you know that not
33:01
only is it your job it’s your money it’s
33:04
your freedom all on the line if you
33:06
screw this up so you always err on the
33:08
side of hey even to the point we have to
33:11
self-report your own security violation
33:14
and if you don’t that is a crime so you
33:18
walk into this space you’ve got a closed
33:20
system just like Brad said you cannot
33:22
get that thing off if you put a thumb
33:24
drive into the computer assuming it
33:26
still has a thumb drive port here’s what
33:27
happens an alert goes over to the person
33:29
that runs that part of the computer
33:31
system someone gets up and they walk
33:32
over and the trouble starts right there
33:35
like there’s there’s anything any of
33:39
this it’s all you cannot have top secret
33:42
leave
33:43
because here’s what happens when top
33:44
secret leaves and we’re not even talking
33:46
about secret we’re talking about the
33:47
highest level especially
33:49
compartmentalized so that you can’t know
33:51
someone’s name or someone sources name
33:53
or what a special program or a special
33:56
technology it’s protected because
33:58
people’s lives are at stake and that’s
34:01
precisely right yeah exactly
34:03
people die about this stuff so here’s
34:05
the rule in in the intelligence
34:07
community if that stuff well first off
34:09
we assume everything’s compromised
34:10
anyhow if the stuff gets out of the
34:12
system one there’s a real problem
34:15
someone’s not following the rules – it’s
34:17
all compromised so if there are 70,000
34:20
documents we’re assuming that someone
34:22
now let me flip it and I’m gonna give it
34:24
back to Brad Brad if I told you as a
34:28
station chief that there is a super
34:32
senior government leader in your area
34:34
that is reckless with classification and
34:38
you have a chance to access that
34:40
person’s workspace by hiring in or you
34:43
have someone already has a job there is
34:45
that of interest to you as someone who
34:47
processes information for the government
34:50
well yes of course it would be interest
34:53
of interest to me I’m assuming what
34:55
you’re discussing about it would be say
34:57
just for example not pointing a finger
34:59
but just say for example that a an
35:01
ambassador in a country where I was
35:03
working a u.s. ambassador was allowing
35:06
classified information to escape his
35:08
control that would be of interest it
35:10
wouldn’t be something where I would take
35:12
direct action that would be something to
35:14
be reported up the up the chain up the
35:16
food chain and let the the big boys take
35:18
care of that then it would you know we
35:20
would they would those sorts of
35:22
discussions for example would take place
35:24
at a very senior level in Washington DC
35:26
not but not in that country between a
35:30
chief of station and ambassador so yeah
35:33
that would certainly be something I
35:35
would look at yeah so as someone who’s
35:38
collected information give me a sniff of
35:40
that opportunity and I’m gonna put I’m
35:44
gonna stop everything and I’m gonna put
35:46
all of my resources into exploiting that
35:48
one thing because it may be temporary
35:50
but I’m gonna do everything I can I’ll
35:52
spend millions of dollars if I’ve got
35:54
access to it and like you said Brad it’s
35:56
gay
35:56
get elevated above my level because it’s
35:59
really valuable to have access to that
36:02
information so yeah if it’s a foreign
36:05
you know yeah I mean if it’s somebody
36:06
who’s being sloppy with information in
36:08
that country not an American and I’m
36:11
able to go after the information they’re
36:12
providing like let’s say the vice
36:14
president of you know country X where
36:16
I’m the chief of station then that guy
36:18
is being sloppy with information if I
36:20
can collect all that up oh yeah oh yeah
36:22
we’ll do that all day long absolutely I
36:24
mean that’s it’s a career-making
36:26
operation it could be it could be it
36:29
would depend on what you get but yeah it
36:31
would certainly not do you any harm just
36:33
no matter how you slice it it would be
36:34
something worth going after yeah so and
36:37
the reason why we take that aside is to
36:39
say this is not what about ISM that is a
36:42
significant event in the security of the
36:45
United States we don’t know what’s been
36:47
compromised we don’t even know how many
36:48
things were were released or in the open
36:52
because of this whole thing so then as
36:54
we come all the way back to these
36:55
investigations if you can’t get that
36:57
part right a cut and dry case where the
37:00
person admits to it and obviously it’s a
37:02
system you know and and look if I work
37:05
for Secretary Clinton and I have my
37:07
clearance and I’m using it I’m gonna say
37:08
hey you know I’ll do whatever the boss
37:11
needs but I’m not pulling top-secret out
37:14
of the skiff without some kind of
37:16
written guarantee that she’s gonna give
37:18
me top cover because I’m not going to
37:20
jail for this you know I don’t so
37:23
any that level that wouldn’t want that I
37:26
agree in two very important points out
37:29
of all of this one all of those people
37:32
that were apparently the ones doing the
37:34
day-to-day mechanics of pulling
37:35
classified information off of a you’re
37:38
printing off classified information from
37:40
a computer computer and then Trent you
37:42
know cutting it off scanning it and
37:44
transferring it to the unclassified
37:44
system those people apparently were all
37:47
made had a deal made with them by DOJ
37:49
and that was the famous case of where
37:52
they were out you know with hammers
37:53
breaking their BlackBerry’s into little
37:55
pieces to destroy the evidence the other
37:58
part of it is and by the way there are
37:59
no ports on a classified computer
38:01
there’s no thumb drive port so I mean
38:03
it’s physically impossible to do it the
38:05
only way to get the classified
38:06
information off is to print it and that
38:08
you that absolutely
38:10
100% purposefully CC who printed off
38:12
what when case in point you remember the
38:15
the case of Felicity winner she was
38:18
somebody I never Trump or who hated
38:20
Trump that was working as a contractor
38:22
had started out his airforce broader
38:24
clearance across was working for a
38:26
contracting company saw something that
38:28
she thought would damage Trump printed
38:30
it out and gave it to the press who then
38:31
ran with it and printed it so that’s how
38:34
they tracked it down that that I
38:35
remember the press reporting at the time
38:37
if there had only been three people that
38:39
printed it out the other two were you
38:40
know somewhere else doing something else
38:42
and she was the only one and they
38:43
immediately tracked it down to her and
38:45
she’s still in jail to this day I
38:47
believe now the final point out of all
38:50
that that’s to me is absolutely
38:52
fundamental and most important and such
38:54
a strong indicator of the depth of
38:57
corruption the political corruption that
38:59
exists in Washington DC is where is the
39:02
damage assessment and you had just
39:05
alluded to this where is it they’re
39:06
required to do a damage assessment and
39:08
have not now in the early days of when
39:12
Clinton was in the Secretary of State
39:14
position and this process would have
39:16
begun if it was done as I’m suggesting
39:19
out of all of this there were a lot of
39:21
things going on like the entire
39:22
according to press reporting the entire
39:25
Chinese spy program the CIA’s
39:28
penetrations of Chinese government and
39:31
information and technical information
39:32
were all wrapped up and apparently
39:35
roughly 30 people were pulled out of
39:37
their desks walked out the front door
39:38
and shot on the sidewalk in front of
39:41
their buildings to you know make a point
39:43
to everybody else and another handful or
39:45
in jail to this day well there was also
39:48
a an Iranian missile technology guy that
39:53
was arrested and ended up being shot a
39:56
lot of these sorts of things were taking
39:58
place in that general timeframe now
40:00
nobody can tell you for sure that those
40:05
people weren’t killed because of Hillary
40:07
Clinton’s leaking out of this
40:08
information and I think what what this
40:12
is is in fact the origin of this whole
40:16
Muller investigation and the FISA
40:18
warrant if you just look at the facts
40:20
what fits the facts you know kind of
40:22
taking an Occam’s
40:23
or look at this what fits the facts is
40:26
that Hillary Clinton had a real problem
40:28
because she would have realized those
40:30
names of all those people were included
40:32
in these documents and within this
40:34
hypothesis and that they all got killed
40:37
so she knew that she was on the stick
40:39
for that and had to find a way out
40:41
so John Brennan was a close associate a
40:44
friend somebody she knew had some
40:46
confidence in he was a party loyalist
40:48
who was in charge of the CIA at the time
40:50
so it looks like he went to her she went
40:54
to him and said I got a mess here how do
40:57
I fix this and part of it is the reason
41:00
I kind of suggest that as what has
41:02
actually gone on is based on the timing
41:05
if you look back when the steel dossier
41:07
was created and paid for by the Hillary
41:09
Clinton campaign thus indicating she’s
41:12
the origin of all of this it was done
41:15
before Trump was even the candidate for
41:17
president for the Republican Party
41:19
nobody thought he was even going to win
41:20
the Republican nomination so this was
41:23
all prepared to target someone whoever
41:26
the Republican candidate was going to
41:28
turn out to be and they didn’t think
41:30
they were going to that that person
41:31
would win everybody thought Hillary
41:33
Clinton was going to win most of the
41:34
people I know thought that so the only
41:37
thing that fits the facts is that it
41:39
originated with Hillary Clinton in order
41:42
to cover her tracks for all these leaked
41:44
documents that got people killed that’s
41:46
the one solution that fits all of the
41:49
facts and this whole Muller
41:51
investigation trying to get Trump and
41:53
all of that is a desperate you know
41:57
effort on the part of all of these
41:59
people now at this point to cover tracks
42:01
and I think all of this this this this
42:03
latest thing with Ukraine is to cover
42:05
tracks
42:06
I think the Muller investigation was to
42:08
cover tracks and I think the great fear
42:11
of these people and what’s coming that
42:13
everybody knows is coming is the the
42:17
final investigation coming out of DOJ
42:19
looking at all of this the origins of
42:21
the FISA warrant and how all of this got
42:24
started and kicked off now Attorney
42:26
General Barr has said multiple times
42:28
that he’s asked how all this got started
42:31
and the answer is that he gets don’t
42:33
make any sense and they’re all conflict
42:34
with each other so clearly
42:37
the get-go this whole thing smells bad
42:39
looks bad and I think it’s gonna
42:41
ultimately blow up in the face of the
42:43
Democrats and I think we’re going to see
42:44
people go to jail I would even suggest
42:47
more I would suggest that some of this
42:50
approaches the line of treason and I
42:52
also remind everybody that just the day
42:55
after or two days after the Muller
42:57
investigation ended attorney general bar
43:00
put federal execution back on the table
43:04
so there is now the death penalty for
43:06
federal criminal activity federal crimes
43:09
treason would be one of those I think
43:12
that was done with forethought and
43:14
understanding of what was coming because
43:16
I think there’s people here that have
43:18
crossed the line and I would certainly
43:20
be looking at all of these names you and
43:22
I have mentioned so far and I would not
43:24
be surprised it may only be a ploy it
43:26
may be real but I would not be surprised
43:28
and I guarantee you none of these people
43:30
if they’re guilty of all these things
43:32
we’re talking about not a one of them is
43:34
going to stand up to the threat of the
43:35
death penalty they’re going to give them
43:37
everything they know to have that taken
43:38
off the table so I think that was why
43:40
that was put on the table originally by
43:42
barb because he saw it coming let me ask
43:45
you this you talked about a lot of his
43:47
stuff weaving together and and again
43:52
this is not what about ISM this is a
43:54
significant crime right and we have to
43:56
take it like that what I first became
43:59
you know got into the army and was gonna
44:01
become a counterintelligence agent the
44:03
commander that I had you know I remember
44:05
who the person was just a basic thing
44:06
but he came in and said you know you’re
44:09
about to become counterintelligence
44:10
agents you’re gonna be federal badging
44:12
credential people like you know you’ve
44:16
got a serious job and you need to set
44:19
your meter to being above reproach that
44:22
means that you know you you don’t put
44:24
yourself in compromising situations I
44:26
know not everybody lives our life wet
44:28
way I certainly don’t live my wife that
44:30
way anymore but when I had a clearance I
44:33
I certainly did what I wouldn’t do is go
44:38
on to the Attorney General’s airplane in
44:40
a private unscheduled meeting you know
44:43
as the former president on the day my
44:46
wife is being interviewed about this
44:48
whole thing and expect
44:50
anybody to believe that all they’re just
44:54
talking about kids you don’t put
44:56
yourself in that situation because I
44:58
don’t believe it it’s just like a if you
45:00
and I were to go walk around as as
45:02
intelligence professionals forget that
45:06
as college kids in Iran and the hills
45:08
we’re spies when you go do spy when
45:11
you go do illegal that’s what it
45:13
looks like and yep my question to you is
45:17
does this go all the way to the boss and
45:20
I’m not trying to throw President Obama
45:21
under the bus but when there’s this much
45:24
stuff and there’s this much work to get
45:27
out of the way of it I have to feel like
45:30
it’s not unreasonable to say how much
45:33
was President Obama involved in this how
45:35
much did he know because here’s what
45:37
I’ll tell you as a guy that’s worked in
45:39
Intel we all have a sense for what is
45:41
and isn’t classified and if it doesn’t
45:43
have a portion marking or a header like
45:45
you talked about it doesn’t make it not
45:47
classified again you don’t have to go oh
45:49
because that’s it’s not how this stuff
45:51
works you go whoa why is this on my desk
45:55
this has got presidents intent in it
45:57
this is at least secret you know and if
46:00
not I need to get up and go make sure
46:02
like hey this showed up on my desk it’s
46:04
not portion marked it’s not classified
46:06
as far as what I’m seeing but this seems
46:08
like this should be protected
46:09
information and you go to the person
46:11
whose job literally is to say yes no on
46:13
these cases and so Brad what are the I
46:18
don’t know what are the odds that this
46:20
actually touches the president and
46:21
there’s culpability and a lot of this is
46:23
done just to kind of let go hey let’s
46:25
protect the entire government let’s not
46:27
tear this thing down because of this one
46:30
thing let’s clean it up and then just
46:32
kind of look the other way and say not
46:34
too many harm it’s not too many fouls
46:35
all this good go forward well I think
46:38
that’s certainly the attitude that we’ve
46:40
seen so far I think that’s State
46:41
Department’s attitude I there’s just no
46:43
question they know the gravity of
46:46
everything that was done and I think the
46:48
the powers that be there which
46:50
ultimately has to rest with Mike Pompeo
46:52
secretary state who is a trump appoint
46:55
appointment to the Secretary of State it
46:59
i I just don’t know how I must have gone
47:02
to his level to be looked at but
47:04
understand this they know all these
47:06
things you and I have talked about have
47:07
been true well there goes to the
47:08
President of the United States former
47:10
president United States Obama I I go
47:14
back and forth now previously there were
47:16
a lot of people looking this than the
47:18
way they analyzed it was that Obama knew
47:21
and I would say that’s kind of the most
47:23
common conclusion out of this that Obama
47:26
was directly involved previous to that
47:30
to a recent statement by Jim James
47:32
clapper former head of national security
47:36
I would have said no and the reason is
47:40
because I think all this was spearheaded
47:42
by Hillary Clinton and now it would have
47:45
been things that people would have
47:47
bounced off Obama but I do believe that
47:50
this that the person driving the Train
47:52
the impetus for all of this was Hillary
47:55
Clinton and she was acting through John
47:57
Brennan so say John Brennan thinks
47:59
everybody thought Hillary Clinton was
48:01
going to be the next president United
48:02
States everybody and so he would have
48:05
automatically kind of gone along with
48:07
whatever she wanted plus he’s a believer
48:08
in that doing those sorts of things
48:10
anyway and you know he would have looked
48:14
at and said okay eight more years of as
48:16
director of the CIA great you know I can
48:17
keep doing all the stuff I’m doing now
48:19
at some point that would have had to
48:21
have been bounced off Alabama and people
48:24
would have been telling him James
48:26
clapper came out in an interview oh
48:27
maybe a month ago now and said
48:30
everything they did was approved by
48:34
President Obama so I’m thinking that
48:37
that was more or less the way this was
48:39
and and that that Hillary Clinton was
48:42
driving the bus and yet Obama was
48:46
informed of what was happening and who
48:47
is doing what and why and all of that
48:49
and and allowed it to go forward at the
48:51
very least so I would not be surprised
48:54
if all this plays out in an honest
48:57
fashion which I don’t think there’s a
48:58
guarantee of that yet although it it
49:00
looks like it’s going to go forward that
49:02
way if it does go forward in an honest
49:04
fashion and the truth is brought out and
49:06
then and the guilty are convicted I
49:07
don’t think Obama will be directly
49:10
involved and and that’s the reason why
49:13
is that the orders didn’t originate and
49:15
come
49:16
him he would have you know said yeah
49:19
okay I know what you’re doing
49:20
but you know fine and he he closed his
49:23
eyes to it but I don’t think that level
49:25
of involvement to go after a president
49:27
United States is sufficient so I think
49:30
well I think Attorney General bar for
49:33
example would look at that situation but
49:35
okay well we’ve got Hillary forward
49:38
through everybody else that was involved
49:39
the John Brennan’s the James clapper of
49:42
the Jim Comey the FBI CIA NSA all these
49:47
guys are the type of people that were
49:51
directly involved and therefore the ones
49:53
that we’re gonna go after legally we’re
49:55
Obama I don’t I I may be wrong and all
49:57
this remains to be seen but I just don’t
49:59
think that he was all that directly
50:01
involved made aware but not directly
50:04
involved so I think that’ll be the line
50:06
that’s where that where the cutoff is
50:08
and I don’t think that if this goes
50:11
forward they’re gonna look back at this
50:12
and say oh no President Obama ordered
50:14
this from the get-go is his idea all of
50:16
those sorts of things I don’t think
50:17
that’s ever going to appear you know
50:19
it’s it’s a funny I mean and it’s just
50:22
been a great conversation cuz this is
50:24
when people say what about it’s they
50:27
don’t know all of these things yeah what
50:29
about the systematic disregard for
50:31
people’s lives you know okay let’s just
50:34
is that important to you and if it’s not
50:35
cool cool then we’ll just go forward
50:38
well Matt not on that assumption but all
50:40
of these things you know when the
50:43
government and and this is why I think
50:45
as a nation we’re sort of leery of the
50:48
CIA and the FBI having too much power I
50:50
mean here’s Comey who clearly knows he
50:53
has to go sit in front of the nation and
50:55
lie to you and me and maybe he doesn’t
50:57
lie to the jo-jo person and the person
50:59
that loves Secretary Clinton but but he
51:02
lied to you and I we knew it we heard
51:04
him say like what how can is again how
51:07
can I take you guys seriously if you’re
51:10
going to put people in jail for
51:11
significantly less and call them
51:14
traitors and everything else I mean I I
51:19
struggle with this mightily because look
51:21
the president gets to make a lot of the
51:23
rules you know like wouldn’t President
51:25
Trump I forget who it wasn’t it was
51:26
Jared Kushner he’s like you’ve got a
51:28
clearance
51:29
he gets to do that he gets to go yeah
51:31
give that guy whatever he needs
51:33
it helps me do my job and then it
51:36
becomes a political thing we’re of
51:37
course he can do that he’s the boss he
51:39
he holds the culpability of whatever
51:42
happens and even then he gets to go so
51:44
what he’s fired he’s out of here
51:45
whatever so it does get weird at the
51:47
presidential level but man it’s again as
51:51
a collector I would be licking my chops
51:54
to get after representatives and
51:57
Senators because they’re so desperate I
51:59
think I could exploit that stuff if I
52:02
had nefarious intent or noble intent
52:06
depending on your point of view and what
52:07
country you’re from but I just they just
52:11
seem so exploitable Brad when they get
52:14
into this position of trying to protect
52:17
themselves all I need is a crack and I
52:19
can get in there and start to pull
52:20
really high in different nation out of
52:23
that crack I agree and these things just
52:26
aren’t ever looked at I out of all this
52:28
mess I wouldn’t be surprised if the
52:31
House and Senate are kind of left alone
52:34
even if they’re fairly guilty in having
52:37
been involved in some of the aspects of
52:39
this I mean just look at the track
52:42
record on it I mean and you’ll speaking
52:46
of licking your chops as an intelligence
52:48
officer you’ll you’ll enjoy this one
52:49
look look what happened with Dianne
52:51
Feinstein what gods asked this bring it
52:54
up yeah she has a guy who’s her chief of
52:59
staff out in California who’s been a spy
53:02
for the Chinese for 20 years now her
53:05
husband by the way is a venture
53:07
capitalist guy and they’ve made several
53:09
hundred million dollars doing business
53:12
with the Chinese according to her own
53:15
you know economic report that she had
53:17
ever do her accounting release on how
53:20
much money they own and stuff and so
53:22
they made hundreds of millions of
53:24
dollars doing business with the Chinese
53:25
and in it he unfolds that this guy on
53:30
her staffer chief of staff for 20 years
53:32
as a Chinese spy now the her immediate
53:36
reaction is him by the way the FBI went
53:38
to her right away and today you know we
53:40
believe that this guy’s a spy we know
53:41
he’s just 5 4 X Y
53:43
reasons now in the Trump case which
53:46
you’re required to do by law and in the
53:48
Trump case if there was somebody on
53:50
Trump’s staff who was working with the
53:53
Russians they were also obligated by law
53:55
to go to President Trump and tell him
53:57
and they did not that’s one of the other
53:59
issues that’s going to bite them in the
54:00
rear when all this is said and done if
54:02
it all comes to the light of day so this
54:06
Chinese guy out there she Dianne
54:08
Feinstein says well he didn’t have any
54:09
classified air access to classified
54:11
information he was out in California
54:13
where I don’t keep classified
54:15
information but he was also her driver
54:17
so what do you do if you’re sitting in
54:20
the back seat of a car riding around you
54:22
make all your phone calls so he’s
54:23
hearing all of this sort of stuff yeah
54:25
what’s the other thing he does is your
54:26
chief his office out there what is she
54:28
mainly doing in her office
54:29
and that is collecting money for the
54:31
next election so all of her donor
54:33
information is in this guy’s hands so
54:35
how to prove to me that some of those
54:38
donors weren’t sent to her by the
54:41
Chinese government and that they weren’t
54:43
the ones financing her elections no
54:46
prove that didn’t happen and you know if
54:49
I were the Chinese intelligence officer
54:51
running this that would mean one of the
54:52
very first things I would have done the
54:54
second thing I would have done is you
54:57
know damn well are the people they get
54:59
hired into her office in DC originated
55:02
in California where she’s a senator and
55:04
who would have put them in the pipeline
55:06
to get those jobs her chief of staff out
55:09
in California the Chinese spy so how
55:12
many guys over a 20-year period guys are
55:14
gallops did that guy get jobs in
55:17
Washington DC that are also Chinese
55:19
spies and those guys would also spin off
55:21
the it’s kind of a musical chair things
55:23
on the hill those staff jobs are not
55:26
super well-paid so a guy will go in as a
55:29
staff position in one place he’ll get a
55:30
little bit better job someplace else and
55:32
go to hell and they all jump around so
55:34
he could have sent in 30 40 50 who knows
55:37
how many Chinese spies into the system
55:39
and who knows how many offices those
55:41
guys are working in now where is the
55:44
damage assessment on this and it’s
55:47
nowhere nobody’s even talking about it
55:50
no I haven’t heard a single person
55:51
mention it besides myself at all yeah
55:54
where is it
55:55
how can this be allowed to stand as is
55:57
it’s just unconscionable it really is
55:59
national security it’s been flushed down
56:02
the toilet
56:02
ya know and listen the Chinese have the
56:04
biggest collection force in the world I
56:07
mean everybody’s tasked with something
56:09
you know again as as someone looking to
56:12
gather information you know you’re
56:14
running an office bureau and you’ve got
56:16
access to a senator because the drivers
56:19
there that’s your baby you’re not gonna
56:22
put that person into a position where
56:24
they’re doing anything extra you know
56:26
you might exploit what’s in the car but
56:29
if you’re gonna be the chief of staff
56:30
and recommend people to hire I’m
56:32
gonna work the out of that I am I’m
56:34
gonna I’m gonna put as many people
56:35
through the pipeline as I can keep my
56:38
baby protected not put them through
56:40
anything they don’t need to go through
56:42
and I’m just gonna sponge all of that
56:45
stuff up and then also as I do that I’m
56:47
gonna find other things that are
56:49
exploitable with these people that are
56:50
hired you know when they have their
56:52
character flaws again because they’re
56:53
not above reproach and I’m gonna be like
56:55
there is a point of leverage there’s an
56:57
exploitable point here’s these documents
56:59
now I now I can go and start an
57:01
operation in a completely different area
57:03
because this one this one piece of
57:05
information unlocks a whole new avenue
57:07
and and this stuff spider webs out I’m
57:10
not telling Brad I’m telling the
57:11
audience in a hurry
57:13
I just need access to information so I
57:15
can get access to more information and
57:17
access is the key if you’ve got
57:20
placement and access and now it’s just
57:23
left to my creativity on how bad I
57:27
you every single time so maybe nothing
57:30
happened but this guy here on this end
57:33
who’s collected stuff from evil people
57:35
let me tell you something I’m not gonna
57:37
fail at that I’m never gonna quit and
57:39
I’m constantly going to work that system
57:41
and until that person is swinging from a
57:43
noose ultimately because it’s it’s me
57:46
against them and I will I will get what
57:49
I need out of that dad is my job that’s
57:50
why I exist I would say there’s zero
57:53
chance that nothing happened I mean the
57:55
Chinese intelligence service have
57:58
professionally trained and experienced
58:00
people and you’re not going to put your
58:01
first tour junior officer in charge of a
58:04
case like this one it’s going to be an
58:06
experienced operator
58:08
who knows how to exploit cases and just
58:11
think of it from that individual the
58:13
Chinese intelligence officers
58:14
perspective he could have you know if
58:17
this pipeline we’ve been talking about
58:18
running agents through this pipeline
58:20
into Washington DC and let them spread
58:22
out from there
58:23
and then start recording back to China
58:25
you know talk about wanting to get a
58:27
promotion I mean that well certainly be
58:28
the trick for him and look at some of
58:31
the other aspects of this so it’s easy
58:34
to manipulate once you’re in that far so
58:37
for example this chief of staff like I
58:39
said he’s gonna have his finger on all
58:41
the donors and be talking to these
58:42
people for the senator he’s going to be
58:45
the local contact for these people so
58:48
the husband who’s the venture capitalist
58:50
guy who’s making hundreds of millions of
58:52
dollars he has some company that’s doing
58:55
business a form of business where the
58:59
United States is pushing back against
59:00
China on that and so some US aspect of
59:04
that company here in the United States
59:06
starts contributing money to identify in
59:09
Stein’s campaign large contributions
59:11
there she’s naturally going to be
59:13
friendly to them the husband then starts
59:15
being able to get a piece of that pie
59:17
doing business and is able to make ten
59:19
or twenty million dollars out of the
59:21
deal again you have a very friendly
59:23
family operation where they’re making
59:24
millions of dollars and Dianne Feinstein
59:27
is getting money into her campaign now
59:29
what happens that means China owns our
59:31
but at least on that issue they own her
59:34
vote so that would have been another
59:35
thing I guarantee you that would have
59:37
got that that intelligence officer
59:39
Chinese intelligence officer promoted
59:41
and that’s no brainer or stuff this is
59:44
junior officer level decisions to figure
59:46
this stuff out it doesn’t take a lot of
59:48
sophistication everybody involved on the
59:51
Chinese end of it would have been
59:52
talking about okay which one do we do
59:54
first
59:54
not whether we do them or not and the
59:56
list would have been longer there are a
59:58
lot of other things that are far more
59:59
sophisticated that could have been done
60:01
successfully to manipulate the situation
60:03
in the favor of the Chinese and that
60:06
includes starting to stretch out going
60:08
to other senators maybe from California
60:10
and congressmen all of that needs to be
60:13
looked at and that I hate to be a broken
60:16
record on this but where is the damage
60:18
assessment where is it and it’s not
60:21
being done
60:21
that’s again it’s just yes yes again as
60:26
a station chief if one of your guys or
60:29
your one of your people came up to you
60:31
and said I have got the chief of staff
60:34
who also drives the car for a not just a
60:37
senator but a senior senator who I
60:39
believe sits on the Intelligence
60:40
Committee are you interested in that is
60:44
there a sweeter prize than that I don’t
60:46
think they get any sweeter other than
60:48
maybe you know someone inside the Oval
60:50
Office with similar access well that
60:54
would have that would have had it would
60:56
has to always the way were organized the
60:59
United States and then divisions between
61:01
the different agencies that has to end
61:03
up in the arms of the FBI so that would
61:07
be the automatic thing me and his chief
61:10
of station if I came across something
61:11
like that where somehow I knew that
61:14
there was a spy on the staff of a
61:17
congressman or senator I would have just
61:18
we would have the agency would have kind
61:20
of washed its hands of it pretty quickly
61:21
they would have gotten everything we
61:23
could get and just start turning it over
61:24
as quickly as we can to the FBI probably
61:28
the FBI has offices overseas to there
61:31
the legal attache office league at for
61:33
short is what we call it there would be
61:35
FBI people there probably we would start
61:37
by at Washington DC and word would come
61:40
down they would either send out a
61:41
special TV wire to handle this or they
61:44
would have talked about their special
61:46
agent in charge of the FBI office the
61:48
league at office and maybe call him back
61:51
to DC to talk about how to handle all
61:53
this and it would have been coordinated
61:54
somehow in that fashion but it would
61:56
always end up in FBI hands from from the
61:58
get-go yeah and I guess the ultimate
62:00
thing I’d want to illustrate with this
62:02
for the audience is that this one person
62:05
is so important to to your adversaries
62:08
efforts there will be an entire staff
62:11
hired out specifically like you said
62:13
they’ll be TV wide in and if it
62:15
continues to go ultimately they get
62:17
permanently assigned and there might be
62:18
20 25 30 there might be a hundred people
62:21
working on the opposite end of this
62:23
thing just focused on this one aspect
62:26
because it’s so valuable
62:27
you will spend millions of dollars in in
62:31
future retirement for your Chinese
62:33
employees there will be so many resource
62:35
so at this as long as it’s a viable
62:37
operation to just say oh nothing
62:40
happened
62:41
ignores how valuable this is
62:44
and then first off how the did this
62:46
happened in the first place you know
62:48
well that’s an excellent question that
62:50
in a damage assessment would be you know
62:52
relate to us all how this whole thing
62:54
got started but you’re absolutely right
62:56
I mean the FBI for these sorts of things
62:58
something that at high level I mean
63:01
depending on what facts they start to
63:02
see as they get into it the question is
63:05
not you know can they get the resources
63:08
to throw it the problem I mean they’ll
63:10
bring people from they do this on big
63:12
cases they’ll bring people in from other
63:14
offices if FBI headquarters can’t take
63:16
care of it they’ll automatically draw
63:18
from the Washington bureau office and
63:19
start bringing in people from other
63:21
offices Philadelphia or wherever and
63:23
they’ll draw them all in from Atlanta
63:24
out from the west coast LA whatever they
63:26
have to do if they have to put together
63:28
five hundred people guarantee of the
63:30
FBI’s gonna put together five hundred
63:31
people yeah I mean that’s that’s exactly
63:34
right whatever it takes whatever it
63:37
takes and I literally mean whatever it
63:39
takes they’re going to make it happen
63:40
and listen beretta this is a great
63:44
conversation one of my favorite spy
63:45
versus spy episodes because we just got
63:48
these realities for guys like us this is
63:51
what we want we want these opportunities
63:53
we want there to be chaos in the senior
63:56
level of the government so that we can
63:58
gain access to these things as an
64:01
adversary you know someone trying to
64:02
even even a friend you know we’ll just
64:05
say Great Britain you know they see this
64:07
know like oh great we can find more
64:09
things out like everybody’s collecting
64:11
on everybody and if you have chaos like
64:14
this it’s not hard to find people to
64:16
exploit what whether it’s passively or
64:18
actively and and you can really change
64:21
the outcome for your nation because
64:23
you’re right how many votes do you need
64:24
but when when there’s something coming
64:26
through the Congress and the Chinese
64:29
look around they’re like okay they’re
64:31
doing the same thing that Congress is
64:32
doing we have these 18 votes how do we
64:35
get the next twenty that we need to flip
64:38
this thing from A to B but that
64:39
absolutely happens it’s it’s statecraft
64:42
but what’s the information system for
64:45
statecraft it’s the CIA it’s the FBI
64:47
it’s the army CI all these things that
64:49
of them the ability to find the assets
64:51
to create the impact that they want with
64:54
another nation yeah it’s it’s a it’s a
64:58
funny game and dance out here all the
65:00
time that’s going on at the political
65:02
level I think the population in general
65:05
of the United States of America
65:07
understands that this is going all the
65:09
time on all the time at some level and
65:11
that’s why one of the most least trusted
65:15
groups of people in the United States is
65:18
Congress yeah because they just see it
65:21
but the quirk out of all of this is is
65:23
most people like their local congressman
65:26
or senator uh-huh but then they think
65:28
that everybody else is guilty of all
65:29
this stuff but they’re I think they all
65:31
are yeah yeah I always start with will
65:33
vote your guy out take all your
65:36
incumbents and vote them out my guys
65:38
good yeah okay
65:40
that’s why we’re the we’re in the mess
65:42
we’re in and okay seriously well listen
65:44
Brad we’ve done an hour and it was I
65:46
don’t know I really enjoyed it and I
65:48
would love to have you come back on it
65:49
and do some more you guys can find more
65:51
about Brad intel reformed org Intel
65:54
reformed org you can also link with Brad
65:57
on LinkedIn and just I mean what a great
66:00
conversation from from a guy that’s done
66:02
work in real life not just someone who’s
66:05
written a book and theorized this is a
66:07
guy who’s at the tactician anta and
66:09
knows how to get what he needs from the
66:11
people in the field so thanks Bradford
66:13
coming on and sharing your story at
66:15
least you know talking about these great
66:17
stories thank you it’s Americans for
66:20
intelligence reform we’re on Facebook
66:22
YouTube and certainly the website at
66:25
Intel reformed org thank you so much
66:26
it’s great talking with you
66:29
you
66:29
[Music]
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