Viruses, espionage, money and warfare. A history lesson.

If you believe China’s Wuhan lab was looking for a cure of viruses such as COVID-19, think again. Brad Johnson, retired Senior CIA Operative and President of Americans for Intelligence Reform, outlines the history of Chinese infiltration into our research labs and universities with the intent to steal secrets they can use for either monetary or military purposes. From the FBI’s warning to those institutions to Mike Pomeo’s recent speech to governors, the Intelligence Community has been well aware the CCP has been and continues theft of our research and much of it revolves around viral manipulation. Brad cites several indictments issued by 5 Eyes members of citizens and nationals complicit in this duplicity – up to 30-40 cases in the U.S. alone. This is nothing new. See why we have become the proverbial fish in a barrel and the implications today and in the future. intelreform.org



brad johnson we are we are made the 4th
00:03
of 2020 and there are other aspects of
00:07
chinese let’s say diplomacy that haven’t
00:11
been looked at because of the incredible
00:15
newsworthiness of anything Kovac 19
00:17
related maybe it might be worth looking
00:20
into some of the other the other aspects
00:23
of Chinese international relations yeah
00:26
it’s it’s one of the things I everyone
00:28
small just you kind of want to stop and
00:31
take a step back and sort of take a look
00:33
from that you know the 10,000 foot view
00:35
of kind of the situation in c-tec
00:38
because sometimes the patterns are so
00:40
clear that it’s really fairly conclusive
00:44
whereas if you’re too close to it
00:45
looking at it it can be kind of
00:46
confusing as to what’s going on but
00:49
specifically with Kobe 19 in China and
00:52
just in the last few days the
00:54
intelligence community came out and said
00:56
you know the Kobe 19 is not man-made
00:58
it’s just a naturally occurring thing
01:02
well you know in in part what they’re
01:05
implying there was it again sort of came
01:07
out of the wet market stuff and now it’s
01:10
pretty conclusive I mean everybody up
01:12
and down including other elements of the
01:14
intelligence community everyone is
01:15
fairly clear now that this came out of
01:18
the Wuhan lab now of course the chains
01:21
are denying it because of things we’ve
01:23
talked about before but one if it was
01:27
just an accident but they had it in
01:29
their lab there are certain implications
01:30
on the fact that they were studying it
01:32
in their lab so the Chinese want to
01:34
avoid that and secondarily if they were
01:37
sloppy in their handling of it you know
01:39
dread disease in their lab and escapes
01:41
out which is you know almost certainly
01:43
the case that then implies a certain
01:47
level of responsibility on the part of
01:48
the Chinese so that they’re trying to
01:50
avoid as well so now from the United
01:52
States perspective there’s some problems
01:57
too because you know the president nine
02:00
states wants to have trade deals and
02:01
things with China he doesn’t want to
02:03
have you know closed borders and
02:05
problems of that nature where it’s so
02:07
extreme and and the Chinese don’t tend
02:09
to respond well to to you know being
02:12
called out
02:13
stuff and we’re so lie and deny it
02:15
they’re never gonna admit to it so
02:17
they’ll just have to keep upping the
02:18
ante they’ll feel like their hand is
02:19
forced to do so so I kind of wanted to
02:22
go over some of the things that we see
02:23
and just like put those pieces together
02:25
now something that we’ve talked about
02:27
before was Secretary of State Mike
02:29
Pompeius
02:30
speech to the Governors Association say
02:32
a month ago now and he warned them in
02:35
essence of some of the programs that
02:38
they have out there and there’s this
02:43
program called thousand talents program
02:45
that is a change intelligence run
02:48
program used to target in all 50 states
02:53
the university and research systems and
02:56
so that’s something that’s been going on
02:58
for years and clearly has had a just
03:01
tremendous success and they’ve made a
03:02
lot of inroads into the university
03:05
system here in the United States with
03:06
research grants and stuff it’s money
03:08
they drive it through money and that
03:10
lets them bring in students and so on of
03:12
course we always know that the Chinese
03:14
are trying to steal information that’s
03:17
of any sort of value or utility to their
03:20
you know military programs or just any
03:24
sort of monetary value as a commercial
03:26
item I mean even though any of those
03:28
things they’re trying to steal it all
03:29
the time and that’s one of the things
03:31
that President United States has really
03:33
cracked down on and tried to push back
03:36
on those sorts of things where they’re
03:38
stealing information now after Mike
03:41
Pompeo gave that speech the states I
03:43
think we’re kind of surprised and of
03:45
course they’re completely ill-prepared
03:46
as you’d expect state government local
03:49
legislators and those sorts of things
03:51
those people aren’t trained in
03:53
counterintelligence and they’re not
03:55
trained to be aware of and resist
03:58
intelligence activities on the part of a
04:01
foreign hostile government like the
04:02
Chinese so it’s kind of like shooting
04:05
fish in a barrel for the Chinese
04:06
intelligence and it’s one of the things
04:08
that we need to ratchet up and and
04:10
provide awareness of training at the
04:12
state level which I don’t know that
04:14
would be a massive program I understand
04:16
and there’s a lot of turnover so it’d be
04:18
a constant problem so it’s an inherently
04:21
and center free system that the Chinese
04:23
are exploiting to the hill and I just
04:26
wanted to go through some of the other
04:27
things that have gone on back in
04:28
November two thousand nineteen a Chinese
04:31
scientist was stopped at the Detroit
04:33
Airport and he was carrying in MERS and
04:35
Sarris viruses now he was taking these
04:39
back to lab from the apparently the Wu
04:42
Han lab in China and this would be all
04:45
part of this research going on now this
04:47
was under you know it wasn’t an open
04:50
thing he wasn’t doing it because he was
04:51
supposed to it was part of the research
04:53
he was doing it privately on the side
04:54
for the Chinese whatever they were so
04:56
the lab that he was headed to the United
04:58
States had something women held back
05:02
from the authorities running the place
05:04
so it was a secret program that he was
05:06
part of and Cove in nineteen as
05:07
everyone’s aware of SARS and MERS and
05:09
Kobe 19 are all of the same virus family
05:12
in 2013 there was somebody who was
05:15
stealing up some products out of the
05:18
Medical College of Wisconsin in
05:19
Milwaukee and was taking it back to a
05:21
Chinese University again stealing it not
05:24
nothing opened this wasn’t an exchange
05:26
of information also in 2013 several
05:29
people were at Eli Lilly which is a
05:32
private sector company doing
05:34
pharmaceuticals and they were trying
05:37
they had established their own Chinese
05:39
company and we’re trying to steal things
05:41
uh II like really apparently to then
05:45
take back to their own Chinese company
05:47
and course lies now of course you know
05:50
that sort of thing doesn’t happen
05:51
without the acquiescence and permission
05:53
of the Communist Party of China their
05:55
their commercial system isn’t set up
05:57
like they’re ours so you’re just not
05:58
able to freely view things and also
06:00
under the law of China anyone by law is
06:04
required to conduct espionage for China
06:08
if they’re ever required to do so those
06:10
laws don’t exist for us we as the CIA
06:13
for example can’t go to any random US
06:15
citizen anywhere in the world and any
06:17
sort of business and say okay now you’re
06:19
working for intelligence you’re
06:20
conducting espionage now you can’t force
06:23
people to do it from our perspective but
06:25
the Chinese that’s the law if they
06:26
refuse to cooperate
06:28
that’s illegal they’ll go to jail or the
06:30
family
06:30
we persecuted or something like that so
06:32
the laws are quite different than that
06:34
now continuing on this 2017 this was the
06:40
he had Chinese intelligence officer
06:43
handlers and was working for the
06:45
Shanghai Academy of Sciences and was
06:48
charged here in the United States for
06:49
espionage military intelligence Chinese
06:52
military intelligence that was 2017-2018
06:55
as a change citizen was arrested in
06:58
Chicago again for acting as an illegal
07:00
agent of China he was indicted again on
07:03
intelligence charges and was working for
07:06
the Ministry of State Security Chinese
07:08
Ministry of State Security and very
07:12
interestingly he was to obtain
07:13
biographical information on individuals
07:16
engineers and scientists some of whom
07:18
were US defense contractors and some of
07:20
them who were Chinese nationals so you
07:22
could see clear targeting looking at
07:25
individuals of interest in the United
07:27
States who have access to this sort of
07:29
information and also people have Chinese
07:32
descent they’re targeting those people
07:34
because they’re figuring they have got
07:35
family back home they can go after him
07:37
I’ll go through this a little faster
07:38
because there’s so many 2019 two people
07:40
arrested from the Children’s Hospital
07:44
Research Institute again stealing things
07:47
that are related to manipulating viruses
07:50
to make them in this case what the
07:52
children’s hospitals are researching is
07:53
how to cure but they were stealing that
07:55
information on how to manipulate these
07:57
these viruses things that have impact
08:00
2019 somebody was arrested in New Jersey
08:02
and what he was doing was obtaining
08:05
fraudulently obtaining US visas for
08:08
Chinese government employees bringing
08:10
them in as research scholars and student
08:13
visas so again all this all this stuff
08:17
tastes together the FBI took a look at
08:19
this thousand talents program and all of
08:21
us and came out with a big warning
08:23
telling everybody that they that the
08:25
Chinese are essentially on an
08:27
intelligence blitzkrieg against the
08:30
United States and the West and they came
08:33
out with a warning on it and since then
08:34
in 2018 they started to increase their
08:36
push back 2019 a husband and wife team
08:40
in charge of the level 4 lab
08:42
in Winnipeg they were essentially
08:46
charged with working for China and it
08:48
was considered an administrative manner
08:49
was how they publicly did it and as we
08:51
know Canada doesn’t want to officially
08:54
kind of come out and confront China with
08:58
these things because they have a great
08:59
relationship and basically to left us
09:02
oriented governments who try to
09:04
cooperate at that level so it was just
09:07
turned over but it was a viral lab there
09:09
they were studying all these same things
09:10
related to the lamb fluke over in 19 and
09:14
they were thrown out and a whole bunch
09:16
of their students these Chinese students
09:18
that had come over to work in that lab
09:19
as part of the research grants and all
09:21
of that would burn out and so you see I
09:25
mean you just started I just picked a
09:27
few this there’s a lot more there’s a
09:28
lot of other cases we’ve seen in you
09:30
know in England and Australia and Canada
09:33
and all in just these cases the United
09:35
States all late to change military
09:37
intelligence all leads back to the
09:39
research and China and all related to
09:43
one way or another these czars family of
09:47
viruses of which as I said coded 19 is
09:50
apart so what we’re seeing here with
09:55
that type of activity on the part of the
09:56
Chinese one thing that everybody needs
10:00
to understand is as soon as you see the
10:02
hand of state security Chinese military
10:05
intelligence those sets of things
10:08
involved with stealing and manipulating
10:11
virus information and taking it back to
10:13
China for research or bringing it in
10:15
here to sort of manipulate the research
10:17
taking place here in the United States
10:19
all of those sorts of things and you can
10:21
just a picture where they take stuff
10:23
back to China they work on it work on it
10:25
work on it come to a roadblock so they
10:27
take their sample bring it back to the
10:28
United States slipping in say they did
10:31
it here and then have all those people
10:32
go to work researching it to get the
10:34
next breakthrough and then they steal
10:35
that take it back to China and you can
10:37
see the process of that nature taking
10:39
place so the take home out of all of
10:42
this is Chinese state security Chinese
10:45
military intelligence don’t do research
10:49
on any
10:50
to come up with cures they don’t do that
10:54
what they do is weaponization things so
10:58
if if there’s a biological weapons
11:02
program in China which you’d be childish
11:04
to think there is not they would have to
11:07
be doing these intelligence programs for
11:10
those reasons and just in these few
11:13
cases you can see where there was
11:14
somebody stealing visas getting
11:17
targeting information on people inside
11:20
the system here in the United States
11:21
they need and it’s not going to be one
11:23
person if we catch one that’s the tip of
11:25
the iceberg so you know there’s a lot of
11:26
other people out there doing it for the
11:28
Chinese as well and if we catch them in
11:30
these university systems now as I said
11:32
the FBI beginning in 2018 did an
11:34
unclassified warning letter about the
11:36
Chinese activities in this area and they
11:38
begin they began to to beef up their
11:42
counterintelligence effort to defend
11:44
against this Chinese aggression and
11:47
we’ve seen a lot of the people that they
11:49
start to investigate in the universities
11:52
with too close of a tie or suspicious
11:54
tie back to China a lot of those people
11:57
have been fired and we’re not talking
12:00
one or two people we’re talking dozens
12:02
of people who either been fired or
12:04
resigned before they could be
12:06
investigated or or unwilling to provide
12:08
the information that the investigators
12:10
were looking at on their activities and
12:12
connections back to China so you’ve got
12:14
a dozens of people out there some of
12:16
which in the university system we know
12:18
there was a big arrest in Harvard at the
12:20
head of the chemistry department there
12:21
who’s in jail for espionage for the
12:23
Chinese and these dozens or so of people
12:27
within the University and research
12:29
system here in the United States that
12:30
have been let go so I mean if you take
12:32
the cases I listed off those dozens the
12:34
others arrested just here in the United
12:37
States we’re looking at 30 or 40 cases
12:39
now if that’s not an intelligence
12:42
Blitzkrieg I don’t know what you could
12:44
consider one and what is it related to
12:46
it’s all related to this virus research
12:50
and other things as well I’m not limited
12:53
to that there’s a lot of other areas but
12:55
it always circles back to this stuff so
12:57
out of the last say decade the Chinese
13:01
have been working very hard
13:03
with their state security military
13:05
intelligence program doing something
13:07
related to these viruses which includes
13:10
the coded nineteen buyers and they don’t
13:14
do pure research to create cures for
13:18
viruses they do bioweapons activities so
13:21
that you just cannot look at this and
13:24
conclude that this is anything other
13:25
than an intelligence program supporting
13:27
the bio weapons research and it all ties
13:29
back to the Wu Han level 4 lab which is
13:31
the origin of they come in 19 buyers so
13:34
ok now there’s people out saying that
13:36
this is this just is unrealistic and
13:39
well ok well how I mean you you can look
13:42
at the facts here these are all court
13:45
cases this is FBI warnings these are
13:47
people kicked out or fired from
13:49
universities all because of what this
13:51
activity that’s going on and as I said
13:53
Chinese intelligence doesn’t do peer
13:55
research for cures they do bioweapons
13:57
research that’s what they’re after
13:58
so to look at this thing and say that
14:01
this is just some goofball stories is
14:03
you have people lying and covering for
14:06
the Chinese the question we need to ask
14:07
her why are elements in the United
14:09
States trying to cover this and why
14:11
isn’t it really being looked at and can
14:14
we trust the numbers that were being
14:15
given just in general so there’s just so
14:18
many questions here that are unanswered
14:19
and people saying well it’s impossible
14:21
that this happened or was done through
14:23
bioweapons research okay well fine if
14:26
that’s the case if you’ve gone through
14:28
that whole process this is all
14:30
unclassified because it’s all out there
14:32
if you’ve gone through that whole
14:33
process lay the data out on the table
14:35
for everybody to look at and they do not
14:38
why you know it’s it’s all on classified
14:41
as I said that research is out there
14:42
open a lot of countries are doing it and
14:44
we just had that report from five eyes
14:46
which is the shared intelligence program
14:49
by basically the english-speaking
14:50
countries Australia Haitians Canada UK
14:54
New Zealand and they they came out with
14:58
a report that was leaked interestingly
15:00
actually can I can I stop there for one
15:03
second I have read speculation that said
15:06
that the five eyes report was leaked in
15:08
order to stop countries like Canada from
15:11
interfering with it
15:13
I you know and people may consider what
15:18
I’m sitting here speculative on the
15:19
previous part but and it’s highly
15:21
speculative to guess as to why it’s
15:23
leaked and there’s a there’s many
15:25
threads to this that could have been the
15:27
justification for it and that’s
15:29
something that we’re almost certainly
15:30
never going to know
15:31
so I hesitate to say too much about that
15:34
but certainly was leaked on purpose to
15:36
me probably the the main theory I would
15:39
have is it was leaked because there’s so
15:41
much information out there saying that
15:44
oh this didn’t come from Wu Han lab and
15:46
that’s conspiracy theory nutjob stuff
15:49
and bottle of wine so they they wanted
15:52
to leak this to show that no in fact the
15:54
intelligence agencies know that it
15:56
didn’t come from that lab and now what
15:58
we need to do is dig in and see what was
16:01
being done to it and this said this is
16:03
the type of information that needs to be
16:05
out there but as I said I think there’s
16:06
hesitation on everybody’s part I can
16:09
guarantee you Canada even if it knew for
16:12
a fact that the coded 19 was a Chinese
16:16
bio weapon gone wrong they’re not going
16:19
to want to publicly say it and I think
16:21
many of those other countries Australia
16:22
for perhaps different reasons but I
16:25
think they would be very hesitant
16:26
I think everyone involved would be very
16:28
hesitant including the United States
16:29
even if the president the United States
16:31
and Congress and Senate and all of that
16:34
knew for a fact or a small group of them
16:36
did I think they would all be very
16:38
hesitant to come out and say this is a
16:41
bioweapons Chinese bioweapons program
16:44
and virus gone wrong it got out of the
16:46
lab and it’s killing all these people
16:48
because of that it was a vile engineered
16:50
weapon every I think everybody hesitates
16:53
to say that and I you know I’m not even
16:55
going so far as to say that’s completely
16:57
wrong because of that would create the
17:01
confrontation that would create China
17:03
Chinese eat no matter what their level
17:06
of guilt clearly there’s some level of
17:08
guilt so we’re not talking about whether
17:10
they’re guilty or not we’re talking
17:12
about how guilty are they and of course
17:14
China wants to deny everything from the
17:16
beginning and if even if we have
17:17
absolute proof this is bioengineered
17:19
and you know what’s trendy going to do
17:22
they’re not going to admit to it and pay
17:23
reparations and all that so it means
17:25
worldwide confrontation and you know how
17:28
deeply do we want to go down that rabbit
17:30
hole that’s that’s a problem in a
17:32
question so well you know you since you
17:35
mentioned that’s at the beginning when
17:38
you were speaking about viruses at this
17:41
lab the question is when can we expect
17:43
the Kovach 20 and Kovach 20 quarter
17:48
three so I guess I’m answering my own
17:51
question with the names the point is
17:53
that not having a worldwide not having a
17:56
confrontation also has a cost it does
18:00
and and we don’t know I mean at least we
18:03
here don’t know for sure the spectrum I
18:06
think of what’s real out there as far as
18:09
possibilities realistic as far as the
18:11
possibilities is it’s just innocent
18:14
research taking place in there wuhan
18:17
level 4 lab where they were indeed
18:19
trying to find cures for viruses or
18:22
researching how to treat viruses and
18:24
they just weren’t prepared to handle
18:28
something that that that was that
18:29
contagious and in this cage so I mean
18:31
that’s sort of the beginning point and
18:33
the scale goes all the way up and
18:35
through a bunch of graduations of you
18:38
know Chinese intent up to the point
18:41
where this is actually the first step in
18:44
China attempting to essentially conquer
18:47
the world now I don’t think that’s that
18:50
realistic but that you have your rule
18:52
we’re looking at a spectrum this is
18:53
gaming it out to see what what the
18:55
possibilities are but this could be in
18:58
essence the first step and they’ve
19:00
released it out on purpose they were
19:02
willing to take the hits within their
19:03
country the people that died and they’re
19:05
gonna come out with another one and come
19:07
out with another one and come out with
19:08
another one until essentially they’ve
19:10
decimated the economy of the world while
19:13
they’re able to keep enough of their own
19:15
going because they have the cures and
19:17
advance and treatment
19:19
and their each time willing to accept
19:21
the casualties out of the civilian
19:24
population of China in order to make it
19:27
look like they’re not guilty of anything
19:28
I mean that’s draconian and getting
19:31
pretty far out there as a theory but I
19:33
mean that I think is this is the
19:35
spectrum that we’re looking at or
19:36
something anywhere in between so like I
19:38
said from China’s perspective I mean
19:40
they’re in the eye I guess they would
19:42
look at it as kind of the fight of their
19:43
life for one reason or another because
19:45
they certainly don’t want to pay
19:46
reparations they don’t want to be blamed
19:47
for any of this and so they’re using all
19:51
of their allies they’ve been caught over
19:52
and over one of the things that I think
19:55
we mentioned it in a previous interview
19:56
but there was this local I had an
19:59
alleged legislature in one of the states
20:00
I forget which state but he was the
20:02
essentially the Speaker of the state
20:04
legislature so the the number one guy in
20:07
that legislature and the Chinese send
20:09
him a letter with a press release
20:11
written out for him that he was supposed
20:13
to read as if it was his own press
20:16
release talking about how great the
20:18
Chinese have been and how helpful for
20:20
come in nineteen so once again we know
20:22
they’re in there in full blitzkrieg mode
20:25
of everything they can do politically
20:28
and in intelligence means to lower any
20:31
sort of thought of guilt on their part
20:34
as to their involvement in the cove in
20:36
nineteen and they’re using all of these
20:39
propaganda techniques you know and just
20:41
everything they can do so every time my
20:44
suspicion on this is every time we see
20:46
somebody here you know the Democratic
20:48
Party the press the universities the
20:50
research institutes the New York Times
20:54
The Washington Post all of these guys
20:56
that are essentially Pro China I think
21:01
they’re they kind of fall into one or
21:02
two categories either they’re actively
21:04
cooperating with China or they’re useful
21:07
idiots as you know the old saying goes
21:09
they’re kind of philosophically in
21:11
agreement that China so they’re
21:13
perfectly willing to play that that
21:15
theme but I think everything that’s
21:16
coming out of that sector has to be
21:19
looked at very suspiciously because
21:21
they’re just not a good source of
21:23
information because they’ve got a bias
21:26
built-in an ax to grind so there’s
21:28
and stuff they say for a reason not
21:31
because it’s their actual analysis of
21:33
the situation whereas here you know I
21:37
rant you I think that the Chinese are
21:39
the greatest long-term strategic threat
21:40
to the United States and this is a good
21:42
example of why and so this is the doom
21:45
honest-to-god look at all that some of
21:48
the just irrefutable facts that are out
21:52
there these guys that have entered the
21:53
u.s. prison system and have been
21:55
convicted in a US Court their standards
21:57
of proof so there’s no question that
21:59
this Chinese intelligence blitzkrieg is
22:02
going on there’s no question that it’s
22:04
going on in a way related to the Soros
22:06
family of viruses and research going on
22:08
in these areas there’s zero question of
22:10
that there’s zero question of the fact
22:12
that this is related to Chinese
22:14
intelligence so as I said there is only
22:16
really one conclusion they’re doing it
22:18
for a damn good reason and it’s not pure
22:20
research to find cures so what is that
22:23
reason okay then it becomes speculative
22:25
but to say that this is just some
22:27
naturally occurring thing out of the wet
22:29
market I think is it’s really become
22:31
kind of childish and I think the only
22:33
people that are still out there saying
22:34
those sorts of things that are either
22:36
actively working with the Chinese in one
22:39
form or another whether they’re paid
22:41
assets or just a philosophically in
22:44
agreement hard to say or again they fall
22:46
into the sort of useful idiot category
22:48
where they’re just manipulated and made
22:50
to say these things because they’re
22:52
convinced somehow that this is true so
22:55
the real research I think is yet to come
22:58
out and there’s a lot of independent
22:59
medical people related to this that are
23:01
just starting to really spout this out
23:03
and that’s where all this pushback is
23:05
coming from and that’s why the
23:06
supporters of China have been backed
23:08
into the corner of where it’s getting
23:10
really hard for them to deny it came out
23:12
of the level 4 lab and woman once that’s
23:15
placed inside that lab is the origin all
23:19
of the other problems begin and like ok
23:21
what was it doing in there what were you
23:23
doing with it you know
23:24
why all this intelligence activity
23:26
around it you know these these problems
23:28
start to mount for China so this is
23:31
where we find ourselves now it’s an
23:32
interesting problem unfortunate results
23:36
out of coming all of this
23:37
but this is all going to come out all of
23:40
this information is out of the public
23:41
sector and people are now starting like
23:44
what we’re doing they’re starting to put
23:46
together all the pieces and you know you
23:48
you this is not just some freaking
23:50
nature thing that happened came out of
23:52
the the wet market in China I mean we’re
23:54
all past that stage if you’re being
23:57
intellectually honest about it Brad
24:01
Johnson thank you very much
24:03
on May 4th 2020 I guess in summary the
24:07
Chinese denials have essentially made it
24:10
clear that it’s up to us to determine
24:13
what the facts are yes that’s how once
24:15
again thank you very much
24:22
[Music]
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