Brad Johnson, retired CIA Officer and President of Americans for Intelligence reform, discusses the implications of the RCMP intelligence officer, Cameron Ortis, being outed as a long-time spy for China.
Clearly problematic for Canada, it unravels into the degree of Chinese infiltration in our northern neighbor. Also discussed is the potential implications of a Chinese firm installing 5G there.
https://youtu.be/JmBAJ9tmdO0
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Brad Johnson this is the 20th of April
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20 20 lakh downs are still everywhere in
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particular in Canada there I don’t think
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there’s been any announcements by
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anybody about easing up although the
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states is easy an up here and there now
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and a story from 2019 September of 2019
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really caught my eye again today is I
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kind of happened to notice an open tab
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and that is about a guy who was a
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civilian RCMP member but way high up in
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the food chain he was a high he was a
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technical guy so he had access to pretty
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much all the top-secret classified stuff
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that the RCMP might have for Americans
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the RCMP in this case would be similar
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to the aspects of the FBI that do
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foreign espionage I guess you could say
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they’re a counter-earth counter
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espionage so this guy was caught for
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high-level we don’t have treason I don’t
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think but for giving information of
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sensitive nature to foreign governments
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they didn’t say which in typical
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Canadian media fashion but the guy the
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guy did in fact speak Mandarin and given
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everything that’s going on right now
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with Chinese penetration and
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infiltration to so many Western
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governments I thought it might be really
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good to revisit the implications of this
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particular arrest of this guy with Brad
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Johnson what do you think yes the
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gentleman was named Cameron Ortiz he was
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head of the RCMP s and you’re right it
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would intelligence is all housed within
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the FBI equivalent within Canada which
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is the Royal Canadian Mounted Police the
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RCMP so he was in the National
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Intelligence Coordination centre which
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as everyone expect when you’re in the
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National Coordination centre that
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implies that your coordination is with
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other countries and that was indeed
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precisely the case with this with this
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person Cameron RT so mr. Ortiz would
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have had for example access to
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information from other countries as well
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because as part of a Canadian
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intelligence service and a senior
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ranking guy and as you say a technical
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person
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would over pertinently had access to
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these things he was part of the five
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eyes program and he was one of the
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direct members of the five eyes program
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which for people who aren’t aware of
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eyes is an intelligence sharing
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organization and it’s between what New
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Zealand Australia UK Canada and the
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United States so he would have had
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access and seen the information from all
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five of those countries Canada’s own
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domestic information that they developed
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as well as from those other four
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countries that I mentioned so he was
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eventually caught and arrested last year
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probably you know we don’t they don’t
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give the dates they leave out a lot of
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details which is what you expect but I
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mean I can tell you just based on
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experience a lot of what happens so I
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mean I don’t have special information
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but like I said I can tell you what
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happened so sometime probably early last
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year he was he was thumbed by the United
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States the u.s. figured out who he was
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that was reported not when but the fact
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that he was tagged by the United States
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as being bad apple that would take time
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to research and surveil him and figure
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out what he was up to so you’ve got to
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assume there was a period in there of
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six months three months at a minimum
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maybe as much as a year possibly longer
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but my guess would be sometime early in
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2019 the United States had figured out
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who he was certain information that was
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getting leaked that the United States
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was coming across identified this
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gentleman and so that’s how they that’s
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how they caught him so once he was
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identified to Canada can’t attract it
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down and at that point because he had
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access to US information because of five
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live’s the US had a dog in the fight so
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this was a real problem that Canada
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couldn’t cover up or walk away from so
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it forced the hand of Canada which
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knowing the Canadian Prime Minister that
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you have he may or may not have been
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really hot to act on somebody spying for
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China now of course that information is
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being covered up too but it was China as
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you say correctly he was a Mandarin
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speaker and he came out of the part of
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the RCMP Asia area division that was
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following all the things in Asia
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so he would have been a long-term
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well-placed guy that channa was China’s
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in East Asia specifically just by the
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way yes exactly right so he was he was
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exactly the type of guy that China would
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go after and they apparently recruited
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him and we don’t know precisely Lin but
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in January of this year now in 2020 more
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charges came out against him so they
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were able to deepen and widen the
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investigation and at that point and like
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I said at that point then the in the
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u.s. the FBI would have cooked in two to
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play with the RCMP and have helped do
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the investigations they would have
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learned more information then at least
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between the u.s. and Canada putting it
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together and the charges the new charges
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go back as far as four things that he
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did back in 2015 so we had 2015 to 2019
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where we know for sure he was spying for
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the Chinese now if those things that we
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caught in LAN go back as far as 2015 he
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was working for the Chinese at least by
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that time and very likely before that so
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likely you had a guy in there for who
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knows how how long I mean it could have
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been a very long time he’s a guy who’s
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been in that business for a long time so
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he’s a career guy to get as high as he
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got being in the national intelligence
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Coordination Center and so he could have
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been doing this for 20 years 25 years I
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mean we don’t know the investigation
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they may or may not know the laws in
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Canada aren’t as strict as they are here
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in the United States so there’s less
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motive for mr. Ortiz for example to to
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just tell everything and the maximum
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penalties and stuff under the laws that
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I believe now this all hasn’t been laid
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out yet we don’t know all the charges
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but probably the max timing be looking
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at would be like 15 years or something
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like that so and in Canada I think you
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do get off for good behavior and things
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to end up spending only a part of that
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time in jail
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so there’s far less motive for him to
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come clean and say everything here in
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the United States where the we’re
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basically you go to jail for life and
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the only way to avoid you know maybe
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worse things
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yes our our to make a plea deal and the
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plea deal is basically you tell us
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absolutely everything you ever did for
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them when who how what when where all
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those those sorts of things so that we
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know what the bad guys know so that we
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can kind of repair and change things
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around and we know that their
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methodology for hemming and all of that
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now he would have been a highly trusted
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asset a set of Chinese intelligence one
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of the reasons I can say that is because
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they made a kind of a comment in passing
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in the papers that he held devices
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technical devices for communication now
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we really call that cough comm covert
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communications which the Chinese would
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have issued to him and they don’t issue
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that to just anybody so this is somebody
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that was you know had two things one he
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was somebody that they had fully
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validated as telling them the truth that
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he was indeed doing what he was directed
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to do and two that he had access to
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information of interest so of course he
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clearly had access to of interest to the
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Chinese so he was a perfect candidate
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for cocom but the fact that it was
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issued like I said it confirms those two
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things so we know that he was well
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trusted that takes time so like I said
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again I would be very surprised if he
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only started working for the Chinese in
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2015 I would be guessing more like a
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decade’s worth of spying espionage
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against Canada and of course once he got
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to this position against the five eyes
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partners the intelligence partners in
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this so this is a very very big deal and
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very dangerous and it’s all part of what
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I’ve talked about many times it’s an
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extraordinarily aggressive Chinese
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intelligence collection program on a
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worldwide basis and let’s not forget
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what it’s about a year and a half ago
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now the Chinese pitched a man – he was
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well placed in Australia to run for the
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Parliament there and they were gonna pay
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him a million dollars to fund his
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campaign and of course would run him
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after he won and became a
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parliamentarian he ended up dying
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apparently it was not a suspicious death
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but don’t know haven’t seen the report
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and there’s a lot of cases of those
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sorts of things we’ve seen the Chinese
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be very
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recive particularly in Canada and really
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the point I wanted to bring this to is
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you know let’s not forget what Huawei
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was doing and they had one of their most
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important key people in doing the
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espionage aspects of Huawei
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was in Canada and that’s the person the
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woman that was eventually arrested and
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is being held in Canada I believe to
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this day based on US charges in the u.s.
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is trying to extradite to the United
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States to stand trial now that what look
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at what all of that means and there are
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and if we look at the level 4 lab in
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Winnipeg that was badly penetrated by
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Chinese intelligence so you know in an
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interview I did not too long ago I
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mentioned demand also out of the RCMP
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David Harris who’s at a counter
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terrorism expert and and very
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knowledgeable guy and one of the things
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that he mentioned is that with all of
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them migration into Canada of that that
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also contains a lot of Islamic radical
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radicalism within those ranks that the
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radicals looked at Canada as a aircraft
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carrier for attacking the United States
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because it was just so well-placed to do
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these things and I think China has done
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exactly the same thing they’ve concluded
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that previously that Canada was the
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perfect place to put that intelligence
0:10:12.339,0:10:15.910
aircraft carrier and it was the platform
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for which they were doing a lot of
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things if you are can attack in Canada
0:10:19.360,0:10:23.980
in an intelligence sense and recruit the
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guys of this level of as Cameron Ortiz
0:10:23.980,0:10:27.459
where he’s providing a lot of this
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intelligence that’s collected by the
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United States and China would been one
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of the things that would have been
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talked about in there it’s the perfect
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place to to operate out of where they’re
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kind of once removed from the scrutiny
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that they would get United States I
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think the fact that Huawei was based
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there at such a senior level I think all
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the things that we’re doing in the
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Winnipeg lab I think this case of
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Cameron Ortiz what we see is that China
0:10:50.620,0:10:57.370
views Canada as basically as safe ground
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in which to do what they’re doing and
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and a lot of the aspects of this I have
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all of those things I mentioned I
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believe that with possible the exception
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of Winnipeg all of that was based on US
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intelligence creating a state making
0:11:08.710,0:11:13.510
Canada do it Canada would not have done
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any of these things on their own without
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the impetus of the United States and
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because the United States was sharing
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information with Canada that that’s kind
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of what it boils down to you want to
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seat at the table you have to follow
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these roles and I think that’s forced
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the hand I don’t think the Prime
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Minister in Canada as I said would have
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done all of this he philosophically is
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extreme laughs so which we’ve clearly
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seen in his his time there as Prime
0:11:33.850,0:11:37.450
Minister and so I think he’s relatively
0:11:35.710,0:11:39.490
philosophically friendly towards China
0:11:37.450,0:11:41.200
so I think a lot of these things are
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only taking place because his hand has
0:11:41.200,0:11:49.540
been forced so I I you know it’s hard to
0:11:46.839,0:11:52.390
come to a conclusion we hope that this
0:11:49.540,0:11:54.339
is kind of the extent of of the depth of
0:11:52.390,0:11:56.680
the problem that we see in Canada but I
0:11:54.339,0:11:59.620
would have to say I think that’s naive I
0:11:56.680,0:12:02.170
think the Chinese have made serious
0:11:59.620,0:12:05.410
inroads into every level of Canadian
0:12:02.170,0:12:07.600
government and I don’t think Canada can
0:12:05.410,0:12:09.760
be considered a trusted partner in the
0:12:07.600,0:12:11.950
five eyes program I think that should be
0:12:09.760,0:12:13.779
looked at it won’t be but I think it
0:12:11.950,0:12:17.800
should be as long as the Prime Minister
0:12:13.779,0:12:19.540
is there I think the other aspects that
0:12:17.800,0:12:21.880
the Canadian people should be looking at
0:12:19.540,0:12:25.240
are you know what are those
0:12:21.880,0:12:28.180
relationships I mean is you know do you
0:12:25.240,0:12:29.830
want a communist form of government and
0:12:28.180,0:12:31.300
if you look at what the some of the
0:12:29.830,0:12:33.610
statements the Prime Minister is made
0:12:31.300,0:12:37.089
about there being now he’s assuring in
0:12:33.610,0:12:39.760
this period of post nationalism in the
0:12:37.089,0:12:41.709
sense of no longer will there be Canada
0:12:39.760,0:12:45.520
for Canadians it’s some sort of rural
0:12:41.709,0:12:47.110
government idea and that’s basically the
0:12:45.520,0:12:48.670
socialist international status the
0:12:47.110,0:12:52.089
policy that you see the Communist
0:12:48.670,0:12:53.680
Party’s push worldwide so it seems to be
0:12:52.089,0:12:56.080
kind of the way that Canada is headed
0:12:53.680,0:12:58.330
which has allowed this open door where
0:12:56.080,0:13:01.150
the Chinese are just running rampant I
0:12:58.330,0:13:03.520
mean this is completely out of control
0:13:01.150,0:13:06.700
in Canada so how this plays out how this
0:13:03.520,0:13:08.740
goes forward we’ve seen also a great
0:13:06.700,0:13:10.370
deal of repression of the news in Canada
0:13:08.740,0:13:12.830
this type of stuff isn’t reported
0:13:10.370,0:13:13.970
so III don’t see how the people are
0:13:12.830,0:13:16.810
going to be able to fight back and
0:13:13.970,0:13:20.120
defend themselves as Canadians in Canada
0:13:16.810,0:13:21.790
particularly with this virus being taken
0:13:20.120,0:13:24.980
advantage of to shut everything down
0:13:21.790,0:13:27.080
related question should Canada plow
0:13:24.980,0:13:31.490
forwards if we aren’t already with
0:13:27.080,0:13:32.900
having China’s Huawei install our 5g do
0:13:31.490,0:13:36.020
you think that might cause the United
0:13:32.900,0:13:38.089
States to completely cut can it out of
0:13:36.020,0:13:41.710
any five eyes or any other special
0:13:38.089,0:13:45.080
relationship in terms of intelligence
0:13:41.710,0:13:45.860
well I am you are asking actually two
0:13:45.080,0:13:48.170
separate questions
0:13:45.860,0:13:50.450
should they or will they and that should
0:13:48.170,0:13:53.750
they yes almost certainly I mean if if
0:13:50.450,0:13:54.920
if Canada goes with Huawei 5g which we
0:13:53.750,0:13:57.589
all know Canada is basically
0:13:54.920,0:14:00.140
blackmailing to have happen and if
0:13:57.589,0:14:01.250
Canada capitulates on that which you
0:14:00.140,0:14:03.680
know with the Prime Minister that’s
0:14:01.250,0:14:05.270
their that’s what he wants to do so I
0:14:03.680,0:14:07.580
think stopping it would be hard he’ll
0:14:05.270,0:14:10.330
come up with an excuse why he has to go
0:14:07.580,0:14:13.550
forward with with Huawei with the 5g but
0:14:10.330,0:14:15.440
Canadians if if while it runs 5g for
0:14:13.550,0:14:17.420
your country they own you I mean they
0:14:15.440,0:14:19.339
own you the amount of information that
0:14:17.420,0:14:21.709
they they run and can have and have
0:14:19.339,0:14:24.320
access to you can’t have a medical
0:14:21.709,0:14:25.730
secret or a banking secret or a behavior
0:14:24.320,0:14:28.610
secret they’re going to know it all in
0:14:25.730,0:14:30.950
China they’ll know more about Connect
0:14:28.610,0:14:33.410
Canada and Canadians than Canada will
0:14:30.950,0:14:35.750
itself and unless they share it back for
0:14:33.410,0:14:37.250
some reason but I think that’s the
0:14:35.750,0:14:40.700
beginning of the end of Canada of
0:14:37.250,0:14:42.950
democracy in Canada if you go 5g and now
0:14:40.700,0:14:45.920
will the United States drop Canada from
0:14:42.950,0:14:47.570
these information sharing things like
0:14:45.920,0:14:49.730
five eyes I mean I don’t think they
0:14:47.570,0:14:52.190
would I just don’t think so I mean there
0:14:49.730,0:14:54.260
would have to be a specific provocation
0:14:52.190,0:14:54.709
where once again we find somebody like
0:14:54.260,0:14:57.350
this
0:14:54.709,0:14:58.880
Cameron Ortiz that’s sharing or giving
0:14:57.350,0:15:00.740
spying for China and giving you
0:14:58.880,0:15:02.209
information back to China with a couple
0:15:00.740,0:15:03.770
of provocations like that maybe you’d
0:15:02.209,0:15:06.470
see it reexamined but without the
0:15:03.770,0:15:07.459
provocation people it’s Canada the
0:15:06.470,0:15:09.620
United States if had to get a
0:15:07.459,0:15:12.770
relationship for too long for somebody
0:15:09.620,0:15:14.450
to just have the wherewithal the courage
0:15:12.770,0:15:16.100
to look at look at it and say wait a
0:15:14.450,0:15:17.779
minute let’s examine this whole
0:15:16.100,0:15:20.030
relationship from top to bottom
0:15:17.779,0:15:21.680
you got 5g now they’re there China’s
0:15:20.030,0:15:23.590
having your launch you know you’re not
0:15:21.680,0:15:26.380
worth partnering with on these
0:15:23.590,0:15:28.380
because you can’t be trusted and that
0:15:26.380,0:15:31.420
would require a lot of political courage
0:15:28.380,0:15:34.000
and I just don’t see anybody having that
0:15:31.420,0:15:35.560
the United States but politicians are
0:15:34.000,0:15:37.360
cowards I mean we all understand that
0:15:35.560,0:15:39.100
they want to stay elected till the day
0:15:37.360,0:15:43.440
they die and they’re just not going to
0:15:39.100,0:15:43.440
do what’s right if it requires courage
0:15:47.510,0:15:49.570
you
0:15:49.710,0:15:59.120
[Music]
[/expander_maker]
