Americans for Intelligence Reform

Brad Johnson, President, and retired CIA Senior Officer and Chief of Staff. Insight into current events from an intelligence angle.

Barry Webb on Turkish expansion into Syria

https://youtu.be/Rwy5hjdRVn4

For the entire transcript of this interview, please continue reading.

 

0:00:00.030,0:00:04.410
Barry Webb’s been a while since we’ve

0:00:01.650,0:00:08.849
had a chance to to talk about the events

0:00:04.410,0:00:11.450
of the of that week and boy a lot of

0:00:08.849,0:00:14.969
stuffs happened since you’ve been gone

0:00:11.450,0:00:16.800
and I think there looks like I guess the

0:00:14.969,0:00:18.900
key things would be on the surface it

0:00:16.800,0:00:20.550
looks like a major change in u.s.

0:00:18.900,0:00:23.670
foreign policy concerning Middle East

0:00:20.550,0:00:25.109
engagements meanwhile it looks like and

0:00:23.670,0:00:27.539
I just watched I don’t know how many

0:00:25.109,0:00:30.660
videos today thanks to the people who

0:00:27.539,0:00:33.649
send stuff into my site Turkey has been

0:00:30.660,0:00:39.420
sending a huge amount of military assets

0:00:33.649,0:00:41.129
equipment personnel into Syria and you

0:00:39.420,0:00:43.800
know it it looks to me like they’re

0:00:41.129,0:00:45.239
really rebuilding the caliphate it’s

0:00:43.800,0:00:47.010
hard to make sense that I don’t speak

0:00:45.239,0:00:50.879
Arabic the videos are all in Arabic

0:00:47.010,0:00:52.620
so but one thing is for sure Turkey

0:00:50.879,0:00:55.949
seems to be establishing itself as a

0:00:52.620,0:00:57.120
regional hegemon and really looking

0:00:55.949,0:00:58.829
forward to what you know I’m free you’ve

0:00:57.120,0:00:59.760
been keeping up with it I’m looking

0:00:58.829,0:01:04.019
forward to hearing what you’ve got to

0:00:59.760,0:01:07.140
say you’ve kind of summed it up exactly

0:01:04.019,0:01:10.799
what’s happening I go back a little bit

0:01:07.140,0:01:13.799
though into last December right before

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Christmas if remember that’s when Trump

0:01:13.799,0:01:18.740
first announced that he was going to

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pull American troops out of Syria and

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Jim mattis it was an Secretary of

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Defense had a big you know what about it

0:01:25.560,0:01:31.320
and resigned and that was the primary

0:01:28.200,0:01:36.930
reason he resigned because he realized

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that with us pulling out the Turks were

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going to move right in and exterminate

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you know whatever every single Kurd that

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they could find and these you know that

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would have included the the so-called

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Syrian Democratic army that we supported

0:01:50.549,0:02:00.840
which is composed of Kurds from the YPG

0:01:54.829,0:02:03.240
Kurdish faction and so to secondary Matt

0:02:00.840,0:02:06.299
Matt does this look like an American

0:02:03.240,0:02:10.050
betrayal of an ally that had been

0:02:06.299,0:02:14.180
fighting side by side with us to destroy

0:02:10.050,0:02:18.450
Isis after

0:02:14.180,0:02:22.410
maddis resigned and submitted his letter

0:02:18.450,0:02:25.709
two trumpets Trump read and then much of

0:02:22.410,0:02:27.780
that was leaked to the press and so it

0:02:25.709,0:02:30.569
was you know was all Lord wonder why

0:02:27.780,0:02:36.030
mantas had resigned Trump kind of

0:02:30.569,0:02:37.530
backtracked and he kept he pulled out

0:02:36.030,0:02:40.709
about half of our troops I’ll let the

0:02:37.530,0:02:42.660
others therefore to train you know or

0:02:40.709,0:02:46.799
continued to train the Kurds and support

0:02:42.660,0:02:50.489
them whatnot in the meantime though he

0:02:46.799,0:02:54.239
had given the green light to Turkey to

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move in two areas were the turkey where

0:02:54.239,0:03:02.579
the Kurdish PKK faction was strongest

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now the PKK faction has been declared a

0:03:02.579,0:03:07.440
terrorist group by the United States and

0:03:05.760,0:03:11.150
I believe all of the rest of NATO

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because in the past they have engaged in

0:03:11.150,0:03:18.840
terrorist activities inside Turkey

0:03:14.489,0:03:22.970
itself okay so the Turks moved into

0:03:18.840,0:03:25.980
Efrain and ethnic cleanse the place they

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exterminated every Kurd Christian and

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you city they could find and when did

0:03:29.970,0:03:35.430
they do this exactly this is over the

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winner after Trump’s first announcement

0:03:35.430,0:03:41.010
of withdrawal from Turkey I’m from Syria

0:03:38.670,0:03:42.750
rather so they did this over the winter

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was when the Turks moved into the Afrim

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province and after ethnic cleansing the

0:03:46.319,0:03:50.910
place they brought in turkic-speaking

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people’s from other parts of the world

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including Central Asia and moved them

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into the areas that had been emptied of

0:03:56.609,0:04:00.540
its original inhabitants so now you have

0:03:58.950,0:04:03.030
a lot of Turkish restaurants up there

0:04:00.540,0:04:06.150
Turkish radio station to whatnot so it’s

0:04:03.030,0:04:11.970
essentially has become part of the new

0:04:06.150,0:04:17.120
kind of fate now when the Turks moved

0:04:11.970,0:04:21.030
into that area into Efrain last spring

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what they did their method of operation

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was to send in first to send in shock

0:04:23.130,0:04:27.150
troops these shock troops are the

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so-called free

0:04:27.150,0:04:33.030
Syrian army as opposed to the Syrian

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Democratic army which we said which we

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support the Free Syrian Army is

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supported by the Turks and this is

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difficult to keep these two separate but

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it’s important because they are entirely

0:04:41.580,0:04:49.860
different the Free Syrian Army supported

0:04:45.030,0:04:52.680
by the Turks is composed of leftovers

0:04:49.860,0:04:55.979
from Isis al Qaeda Muslim Brotherhood

0:04:52.680,0:04:58.560
types so the Syrians have I mean the

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Turks have formed this quote of what

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they call a rebel Syrian force

0:05:03.770,0:05:11.330
ostensibly used to combat the Assad

0:05:08.760,0:05:14.460
regime but actually they use it to

0:05:11.330,0:05:16.740
ethnic cleanses that turkey wants to

0:05:14.460,0:05:20.010
move into so these were the troops that

0:05:16.740,0:05:22.949
ethnic cleansed the afraid province

0:05:20.010,0:05:26.539
prior to the turkeys army moving in and

0:05:22.949,0:05:30.930
restoring order now fast forward to

0:05:26.539,0:05:34.740
today we can see the same thing taking

0:05:30.930,0:05:37.979
place today in other areas of northern

0:05:34.740,0:05:40.349
Syria let me back up just a minute the

0:05:37.979,0:05:44.220
area of referring of a Efrain that we’re

0:05:40.349,0:05:48.090
talking about is it was Northwest Syria

0:05:44.220,0:05:49.979
but a south of the euphrates river the

0:05:48.090,0:05:51.960
Euphrates River kind of also takes a

0:05:49.979,0:05:54.960
bend to the north right there

0:05:51.960,0:05:59.669
now the new area that Syria that Turkey

0:05:54.960,0:06:03.090
is moving into is east and north of the

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Euphrates River and they claim they want

0:06:03.090,0:06:10.770
to establish a what they call a safe

0:06:06.479,0:06:15.000
zone of about 25 miles deep into Syrian

0:06:10.770,0:06:17.400
territory now they initiated the attacks

0:06:15.000,0:06:22.650
with airstrikes and artillery strikes

0:06:17.400,0:06:27.260
the next step will be the so-called a

0:06:22.650,0:06:31.050
free Free Syrian Army folks composed of

0:06:27.260,0:06:32.940
basically ex former terrorists moving

0:06:31.050,0:06:35.099
into ethnic cleanse the place and then

0:06:32.940,0:06:37.110
the regular Turkish army will come in to

0:06:35.099,0:06:40.880
restore order so that’s the current

0:06:37.110,0:06:43.110
situation and this is why

0:06:40.880,0:06:46.199
everyone you know even not Trump

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supporters in Congress Lindsey Graham

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and knew a lot of hot right wing

0:06:48.600,0:06:53.970
websites are actually absolutely

0:06:50.190,0:06:58.260
condemning this latest move by Trump to

0:06:53.970,0:07:00.600
withdraw from Syria what is especially

0:06:58.260,0:07:02.760
disturbing especially for those of us

0:07:00.600,0:07:06.300
who voted for Trump and in wishing the

0:07:02.760,0:07:07.979
best is that his first withdrawal from

0:07:06.300,0:07:12.060
sorry the one he announced in December

0:07:07.979,0:07:14.820
was made only days after a telephone

0:07:12.060,0:07:17.400
conversation with Erdogan so in other

0:07:14.820,0:07:20.490
words again calls him up convinces him

0:07:17.400,0:07:22.410
that you know we’re gonna go take care

0:07:20.490,0:07:23.760
of Isis for you because we’re we’re

0:07:22.410,0:07:25.830
fighting the war on terrorism just like

0:07:23.760,0:07:28.350
you are and Trump says oh yeah it sounds

0:07:25.830,0:07:30.419
a good idea okay go ahead and we have

0:07:28.350,0:07:34.470
the same scenario this time is that this

0:07:30.419,0:07:37.590
current Trump withdrawal came right

0:07:34.470,0:07:41.160
after an urban telephone conversation to

0:07:37.590,0:07:45.479
Trump and he spun the story that a were

0:07:41.160,0:07:46.789
only going after the PKK PKK and Isis so

0:07:45.479,0:07:49.440
let us do the fighting

0:07:46.789,0:07:54.030
so that gives Trump a good attitude to

0:07:49.440,0:07:57.660
pull out but President Trump also was

0:07:54.030,0:08:01.740
very clear that if Turkey was to

0:07:57.660,0:08:04.320
misbehave he would crush and destroy the

0:08:01.740,0:08:07.169
the Turkish economy and he even made a

0:08:04.320,0:08:10.139
cryptic reference to the Hagia Sophia

0:08:07.169,0:08:12.300
and he referred to himself using the two

0:08:10.139,0:08:15.030
adjectives that are pretty much only

0:08:12.300,0:08:17.820
ever used to describe the Hagia Sophia

0:08:15.030,0:08:20.880
so I mean it’s not like I think he’s

0:08:17.820,0:08:24.000
withdrawing without without laying down

0:08:20.880,0:08:26.990
conditions yeah but those conditions

0:08:24.000,0:08:30.479
came only after he got a lot of pushback

0:08:26.990,0:08:32.610
and quitting from his allies and we saw

0:08:30.479,0:08:34.760
the same pattern you know it down in in

0:08:32.610,0:08:36.839
December after his first announcement

0:08:34.760,0:08:39.930
William once he gets slapped in the face

0:08:36.839,0:08:43.349
by pushback from his allies from his own

0:08:39.930,0:08:46.320
people then he you know back tracks a

0:08:43.349,0:08:49.709
little bit so but I don’t trust the

0:08:46.320,0:08:54.440
Turks one minute I think what they’re

0:08:49.709,0:08:57.900
doing in Syria now is going to have sir

0:08:54.440,0:09:01.650
ramifications down the road not only in

0:08:57.900,0:09:04.980
the Middle East but it could even impact

0:09:01.650,0:09:09.050
his presidency in that if he is to

0:09:04.980,0:09:12.120
survive these you know these attempts to

0:09:09.050,0:09:14.820
need to impeach him depend whether it be

0:09:12.120,0:09:16.650
the Russia Russia hoax or the Ukrainian

0:09:14.820,0:09:19.140
thing it’s going to become increasingly

0:09:16.650,0:09:21.810
difficult for the Republicans in

0:09:19.140,0:09:26.100
Congress and the Senate to stand by him

0:09:21.810,0:09:29.040
when they see things like this you know

0:09:26.100,0:09:30.420
the only thing that keeps ringing

0:09:29.040,0:09:33.510
through my head about all this is it

0:09:30.420,0:09:35.870
using a geopolitical or historical model

0:09:33.510,0:09:40.170
the periods of history where turkey

0:09:35.870,0:09:42.570
isn’t a really seriously large world

0:09:40.170,0:09:46.560
power and an imperialist one at that is

0:09:42.570,0:09:50.670
is very very tiny the vast majority of

0:09:46.560,0:09:54.420
history Turkey has been an empire and I

0:09:50.670,0:09:56.400
think that it would really be wise for

0:09:54.420,0:09:59.520
the world part of the world that values

0:09:56.400,0:10:00.840
freedom to keep a strong eye on make

0:09:59.520,0:10:07.680
sure that they don’t start spreading

0:10:00.840,0:10:09.120
outside their their borders you know to

0:10:07.680,0:10:11.160
find returning by history because

0:10:09.120,0:10:14.790
written histories like 5,000 years old

0:10:11.160,0:10:17.880
Turkey has a you know world power a

0:10:14.790,0:10:20.040
great power lasted only for about 500

0:10:17.880,0:10:23.580
years this is during the Middle Ages up

0:10:20.040,0:10:27.420
until I’m green upon the 19th century

0:10:23.580,0:10:29.580
they were had become a minor player they

0:10:27.420,0:10:32.610
had their proxies in North Africa called

0:10:29.580,0:10:34.770
the Barbary pirates but they had very

0:10:32.610,0:10:36.390
little military power of their own and

0:10:34.770,0:10:39.450
as a result of course they were on the

0:10:36.390,0:10:43.430
losing side and World War One resulting

0:10:39.450,0:10:44.730
in the breakup of a debate but now it’s

0:10:43.430,0:10:49.520
what’s that

0:10:44.730,0:10:52.110
it’s been great since then exactly now

0:10:49.520,0:10:55.950
in size we discussed before on this

0:10:52.110,0:10:58.280
program is that his primary foreign

0:10:55.950,0:11:01.890
policy goal is to reconstitute the

0:10:58.280,0:11:05.290
Ottoman Caliphate through you know

0:11:01.890,0:11:09.460
reconquering territory when he can and

0:11:05.290,0:11:11.620
to ally with Muslim Brotherhood have led

0:11:09.460,0:11:14.260
governments throughout the Arab world

0:11:11.620,0:11:17.380
and this brings us to some of the other

0:11:14.260,0:11:19.900
news items this week is that there are

0:11:17.380,0:11:22.750
reports now coming out of Algeria which

0:11:19.900,0:11:28.270
has been undergoing an Arabic and herb

0:11:22.750,0:11:30.160
spring 2.0 that a group called the MOOC

0:11:28.270,0:11:34.720
Tama a Salaam which means society of

0:11:30.160,0:11:36.820
peace is poised to possibly win the

0:11:34.720,0:11:39.430
lion’s share of whatever elections that

0:11:36.820,0:11:42.790
they have in the near future in Tunisia

0:11:39.430,0:11:45.700
they just had parliamentary elections in

0:11:42.790,0:11:47.410
which the mana party which is a Muslim

0:11:45.700,0:11:50.920
Brotherhood the Tunisian branch of the

0:11:47.410,0:11:54.880
Muslim Brotherhood actually won the

0:11:50.920,0:11:56.830
plurality and is in position to form the

0:11:54.880,0:11:58.900
Ness government if they can find

0:11:56.830,0:12:01.510
partners yeah because they didn’t quite

0:11:58.900,0:12:04.030
have a majority so we see our

0:12:01.510,0:12:06.850
Brotherhood linked groups gaining at

0:12:04.030,0:12:11.010
least in some Arab states at the same

0:12:06.850,0:12:15.130
time that Turkey is expanding out of its

0:12:11.010,0:12:17.530
borders however it’s only 25 miles there

0:12:15.130,0:12:20.650
on the moon

0:12:17.530,0:12:24.730
they’re drilling off the coast of Cyprus

0:12:20.650,0:12:26.170
has been on the news recently you know I

0:12:24.730,0:12:30.520
kind of think they’re gonna do something

0:12:26.170,0:12:32.290
against Greece pretty soon unless unless

0:12:30.520,0:12:34.390
we do something unless the front that

0:12:32.290,0:12:36.760
administration comes up and really slaps

0:12:34.390,0:12:38.560
them hard in some way I think they’re

0:12:36.760,0:12:41.310
going to continue pushing and trying to

0:12:38.560,0:12:41.310
grab more and more

0:12:47.939,0:12:49.999
you

 

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