Americans for Intelligence Reform

Brad Johnson, President, and retired CIA Senior Officer and Chief of Staff. Insight into current events from an intelligence angle.

Brad Johnson speaks to Iranian attack on Saudi oil industry. Americans for Intelligence Reform.

https://youtu.be/Nk6B_7TF9s8

For the entire transcript of this interview, please continue reading.

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Brad Johnson it is September the 18th to

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2019 and something interesting happened

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in the Middle East which I think is

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going to be difficult to play by those

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same rules of the last few months up to

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now in the way it looks like just as an

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armchair observer is that Iran has been

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trying to create for its enemies what

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will be seen as a casus belli in order

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for their own people to feel they’ve

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been victimized when they get a return

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attack like when they took down a drone

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they were expecting an American attack

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would consolidate the power in Iran the

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Americans were smart enough to say they

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didn’t kill anybody so we’re basically

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not going to respond and Iran’s been

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escalating ever since and what looks

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like I mean they have controlled the

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information at home so their own people

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don’t know what they did but they will

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know what happens as a response I mean

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that’s how I’m reading it anyway

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so now what they did is using a series

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of drone attacks took out 50% of Saudi

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Arabia’s oil refining capabilities our

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or or production capabilities either way

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50% of the only industry Saudi Arabia

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has has been destroyed by Iran’s proxy

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the Houthi and I don’t think anyone’s

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fooled by thinking it’s a bunch of

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bearded weirdies and pajamas from Yemen

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with these sophisticated coordinated

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drone attacks so my question is I mean

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feel speak about this any way you want

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that my question is how can we play this

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like this isn’t worthy of a response

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well yeah very interesting question I

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think you’re hitting hang on the center

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of it I mean just and and my little bit

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on leading into this is yeah there’s

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been some circuits that have out of

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Yemen that have claimed that they’ve

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done it and others that may have been

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involved but all of the groups all are

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supported and run by Iran so even if

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it’s even if it was one of the surrogate

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groups like the Hutus out of Yemen and

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or something I mean they they don’t just

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do that on their own they didn’t get the

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equipment in training you know on the

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internet they they they were given this

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stuff by Iran and shown how to use it

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and told to go do it so no matter how

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you slice it that’s the

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the origin of it is Iran now and kind of

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what to do and this this there’s a of

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course always a number of factors but I

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kind of sticking with the cause for a

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moment rather than our reaction here in

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the United States you know the the the

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situation with Iran essentially hasn’t

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changed I mean they’ve been under

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sanctions for decades off and on at

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different levels but they’re reacting

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differently this time then they have it

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all of those previous you know like I

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say decades of of these sorts of things

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going on ever since they came to power

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under the this regime with the Khomeini

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and so on

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during the Jimmy Carter days we’ve used

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sanctions as a tool against them to try

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and control them but their reactions are

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much stronger now and I would say this

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is kind of one of those just an

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alignment of motivations by different

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people and you so you have these

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subgroups that are the surrogates of

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Iran that you know want to stand out and

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do stuff and so therefore get more money

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in support for their little fiefdom Iran

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now they have a couple of problems one

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of it is there’s just this

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ever-increasing sentiment on the part of

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the people to get rid of the regime

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they’ve never been all of that popular

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and it’s it’s declined since they came

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to power and the Iranian people are a

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people that have their own history and

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many things prior to their to their this

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regime is taking of power like 51 or 52

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percent of all doctors in Iran and back

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in those days under the Shah were women

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and they could drive and wore western

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clothes and had everything I mean it was

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a normal country with a booming economy

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all many of those people that lived that

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are still alive so it’s it’s still in

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the memory of those people they want it

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back you know because life was way

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better than is more safe and just a lot

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better in every way so that memory is

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there so they’ve got this domestic

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problem and you alluded to this and

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touched on it and and so they’ve always

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got to do things for their domestic

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audience

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but and I’m much of this is that so

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that’s I think part of why Iran is so

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involved with this but I think beyond

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that there also be encouraged to a new

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degree and then as people analyze this

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and talk about it one of the elements

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they always forget is China now China is

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in a very serious problem with the

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United States in the West as well

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negotiations are not going the way they

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want and they’ve got problems in Hong

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Kong

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they’ve got that same domestic problem

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where they’re essentially ruling against

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the will of their people like the

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Iranian regime is their ruling against

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the will of their people and it’s clear

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in China that that’s a problem and so

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they’ve instigated a lot of things to

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tamp down on the population including 50

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million cameras on every streets

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including little villages across China

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just to keep an eye on everybody and

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what they’re doing and facial

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recognition and all those things this is

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an organ of control over the population

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that China is implementing so with their

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economy beginning to shrink a lot of

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economic problems the the flow of money

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coming in has been cut off because of

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Trump negotiating with them fairly tough

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you know being fairly tough with them in

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negotiations they’ve got problems so

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they don’t want direct conflict with the

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United States they know they can’t win

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economically they know they can’t win

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militarily so they have to act out

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through surrogates and one of their

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surrogates or I may be partners would be

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a better word is Iran so I think China

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is looking for ways to create world

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problems as well and in order to

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pressure Trump and take his you know eye

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off the ball with China if you will and

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and create trouble perhaps get him to

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lose the next election those sorts of

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things so this is all playing out in

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favor of China as well so I I don’t I

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think everyone should keep in mind that

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they’re a major factor in this Iran

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their different behavior now compared to

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decades of previous behavior the only

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difference between now and then is China

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and they’re also in that problem so I

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think they’ve joined together look at

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this similarly it plays to both of their

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domestic bases if you will less China

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more Iran in that sense but still it

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shows you all United States is in

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trouble the

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doing this and for them to provoke a war

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with Iran you know they don’t give a

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damn that’s good for them and and I

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think you ran you know they don’t really

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care about that sort of thing either

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they view that as you know just one more

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thing if we strike and destroy some base

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of theirs or something like that that

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place well domestically for them because

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they can show this terrible enemy doing

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these terrible things so it all of that

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plays into this situation and like I

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said these things are just lined up so

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that we have a much much much more

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difficult and belligerent situation with

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Iran right now and this is one of the

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ways they can act it out of course Iran

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and Saudi Arabia already hate each other

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so it it works out in just a number of

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ways it’s all kind of fits together

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beautifully now the other half of it and

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the basis of your original question was

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what’s going to happen as a result now

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we’ve just seen john bolton who was

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saying regime change in Iran and that

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was one of the reasons that he kind of

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lost the confidence of the president is

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because he kept that was one of the

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things that John Bolton pushed was a

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regime regime change now zero-sum game

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the way that John Bolton looked at it is

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what’s the best thing for national

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security United States of America well

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having a new democratic hopefully form

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of government in Iran that represents

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the people and you know wants peace and

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trade and all of that is way better for

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the entire world and certainly way

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better for the United States of America

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so that’s how he viewed it zero-sum this

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is what we need to do and his

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methodology was direct I mean Bolton

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famously a kind of a direct guy so

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whatever he was suggesting was of a

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direct nature now that’s not Trump so it

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brings us to today what is our reaction

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gonna be against Iran very interesting

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if you listen closely what to talk to

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what President Trump says and even

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though he’s constantly accused of lying

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president Trump’s a fairly

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straightforward direct man himself and I

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I don’t I think he very very rarely

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actually lies and what he’s saying on

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this is fairly straightforward revealing

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of what he really thinks and wants to do

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and you notice what he has said well yes

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I mean we’re locked and loaded we can do

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things against Iran if we find out that

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it’s actually you know directly them and

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we can confirm all this then yes we can

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take steps against Iran

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now just if you follow that out and kind

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of take this context that I’ve already

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given with China out there I think

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now all this information of course is

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what anything I know I’m sure president

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knows 10 times over so an N can has

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people that can figure this stuff out

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for him with him and so on and I think

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he recognizes that this is not just Iran

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operating only on its own so striking

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back at just Iran doesn’t necessarily

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make sense and again another thing the

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president’s accused of being as being

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like war monger sort of guy but he’s not

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he’s kind of the opposite of that he

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wants to negotiate it’s his style and

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it’s his strength and he knows that so

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he’s constantly trying to play to his

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strengths which I go back again to China

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and he’s been masterful at that he’s

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just done a you know kick kick rear end

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job on on dealing with China’s nobody

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else has been able to do that he’s the

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first that’s ever been able to really

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get this going

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and the Chinese not understanding how to

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deal with him or lashing out and Iran

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agrees with them at this and so it’s

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something where it’s kind of a

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partnership made in heaven from their

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perspective that they’re both trying to

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achieve their goals through through

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acting out with these belligerent means

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you know the the drone strikes in Saudi

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Arabia and the things are doing to

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tankers and all of that all of this is

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one big thing and President Trump is is

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looking for a non warlike response to

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this trying to figure out how to do it

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and if you look at what he’s done when a

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US drone was shot down he had a very

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measured response and he understands

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this is not just an isolated little

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thing just Iran one guy giving the

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orders acting out sort of thing this is

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a conglomerate of different people with

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motives that happen to coincide working

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together so I think his response is

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going to be measured in that sense and I

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think that’s what we’re gonna see he’s

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probably going to additionally put

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pressure on China I think he’s going to

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do additional pressure economic type

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sanctions on Iran and if he does any

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sort of strike it’s going to be fairly

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controlled and limited because he

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understands I mean you’re you’re you’re

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you’re striking at you know just a

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little a little part of the problem and

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not the not the cause so III think he

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just views it as you know we’re not

0:11:06.950,0:11:09.950
gonna go to war with China over this

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we’re not gonna go full-blown war with

0:11:09.950,0:11:13.100
Iran over this

0:11:10.880,0:11:14.480
so therefore what do you do how do you

0:11:13.100,0:11:16.130
negotiate your way out of it so that’s

0:11:14.480,0:11:17.690
the analysis that’s going on right now

0:11:16.130,0:11:19.130
at the White House that’s what they’re

0:11:17.690,0:11:22.130
discussing they’re still bringing in all

0:11:19.130,0:11:23.570
the facts to take a look at you know who

0:11:22.130,0:11:25.070
the who they can prove did what but

0:11:23.570,0:11:27.710
still he understands the alignment

0:11:25.070,0:11:30.320
that’s taking place behind all of this

0:11:27.710,0:11:32.570
and what what do you think the South I

0:11:30.320,0:11:35.360
mean the salaries okay I accept all that

0:11:32.570,0:11:38.300
math okay but the Saudis in the meantime

0:11:35.360,0:11:40.490
have lost 50% of the one industry they

0:11:38.300,0:11:42.640
have and these are people that don’t

0:11:40.490,0:11:46.250
take not getting a new roles every year

0:11:42.640,0:11:47.990
very easily so what do you see these

0:11:46.250,0:11:50.750
guys doing in response I mean are they

0:11:47.990,0:11:52.280
gonna call in a debt from Pakistan or

0:11:50.750,0:11:54.800
you know what kind of equipment they

0:11:52.280,0:11:57.890
have is it possible that the Americans

0:11:54.800,0:12:00.470
could equip the Saudis to act on their

0:11:57.890,0:12:04.550
own defense and do a strike back on Iran

0:12:00.470,0:12:06.260
you could see it yeah you could see it I

0:12:04.550,0:12:08.750
mean there’s a problem shaping up in

0:12:06.260,0:12:10.040
Egypt that a lot of this is there’s

0:12:08.750,0:12:11.600
different reasons for it but there’s

0:12:10.040,0:12:14.150
different pressures coming on different

0:12:11.600,0:12:15.920
Arab countries like the Saudis like in

0:12:14.150,0:12:19.340
Egypt where you can see some sort of

0:12:15.920,0:12:23.900
willingness to strike at Iran through

0:12:19.340,0:12:25.430
them and actually that would be a good

0:12:23.900,0:12:27.890
way if you will in the scheme of things

0:12:25.430,0:12:29.900
to go about this rather than the United

0:12:27.890,0:12:31.850
States taking direct action and

0:12:29.900,0:12:33.620
encouraged them there’s always Israel –

0:12:31.850,0:12:36.080
Israel has been very worried about the

0:12:33.620,0:12:37.670
Iranian nuclear program for a long time

0:12:36.080,0:12:41.150
and trying to take out some of these

0:12:37.670,0:12:44.090
places you know would would be something

0:12:41.150,0:12:46.310
that Israel has wanted to do and has

0:12:44.090,0:12:48.650
talked about doing for a long time so

0:12:46.310,0:12:50.660
maybe some sort of joint strike getting

0:12:48.650,0:12:53.390
a coalition together to do something to

0:12:50.660,0:12:55.760
strike back at Iran I mean something

0:12:53.390,0:12:57.710
along those lines strikes me as

0:12:55.760,0:12:59.930
something that would appeal to President

0:12:57.710,0:13:01.610
Trump so I wouldn’t be surprised to see

0:12:59.930,0:13:03.920
a kind of a measured response of that

0:13:01.610,0:13:05.480
nature where you have a coalition of

0:13:03.920,0:13:07.550
countries I think you know Kuwait and

0:13:05.480,0:13:09.710
Saudi Arabia would would be interested

0:13:07.550,0:13:11.720
and probably you know at least a handful

0:13:09.710,0:13:13.010
of others perhaps Israel as well but

0:13:11.720,0:13:14.900
wouldn’t it be something to see Saudi

0:13:13.010,0:13:17.840
Arabia and Israel cooperate on something

0:13:14.900,0:13:20.050
like that I you know it would be just an

0:13:17.840,0:13:23.560
interesting way to respond and and

0:13:20.050,0:13:25.630
something that’s kind of that flavor of

0:13:23.560,0:13:28.000
negotiation if you will because I’ve got

0:13:25.630,0:13:29.620
a coalition response so I would not be

0:13:28.000,0:13:30.339
surprised to see something along those

0:13:29.620,0:13:32.830
lines

0:13:30.339,0:13:34.390
be done and I can almost certainly

0:13:32.830,0:13:36.700
guarantee you that something along those

0:13:34.390,0:13:38.050
lines is is being kicked around and

0:13:36.700,0:13:40.570
that’s part of why the response is

0:13:38.050,0:13:42.670
taking time it’s because all of this is

0:13:40.570,0:13:44.380
being looked at so yeah Saudi Arabia’s

0:13:42.670,0:13:45.820
gonna want to try and do something and

0:13:44.380,0:13:47.740
they’re gonna now they’re gonna get back

0:13:45.820,0:13:49.810
online fairly quickly I think they’ll be

0:13:47.740,0:13:52.570
able to repair and replace equipment and

0:13:49.810,0:13:54.610
so on so it’s not a permanent blow but

0:13:52.570,0:13:56.500
it is a big blow and it’s something they

0:13:54.610,0:14:00.300
were fully clearly unprepared to deal

0:13:56.500,0:14:03.010
with Saudi Arabia’s military is limited

0:14:00.300,0:14:04.660
so they’re also going to be limited in

0:14:03.010,0:14:06.579
what they can do which is again why I’m

0:14:04.660,0:14:10.060
kind of suggesting a coalition style

0:14:06.579,0:14:12.010
response just because like I say their

0:14:10.060,0:14:13.690
military is limited in its capability in

0:14:12.010,0:14:15.850
training and equipment and so on they

0:14:13.690,0:14:18.040
have some pretty good fighter aircraft

0:14:15.850,0:14:20.620
they’re not course nowhere near as well

0:14:18.040,0:14:24.100
trying to say US pilots or the most of

0:14:20.620,0:14:25.480
the western pilots so it would it would

0:14:24.100,0:14:26.829
have to be something I think where they

0:14:25.480,0:14:28.630
would do it in conjunction with other

0:14:26.829,0:14:30.250
people so that I would not be surprised

0:14:28.630,0:14:32.170
if something right along those lines

0:14:30.250,0:14:34.630
kind of what you were hinting at there

0:14:32.170,0:14:36.640
would be the would be the long term or

0:14:34.630,0:14:40.230
you know the actual final response out

0:14:36.640,0:14:40.230
of this out of this attack

0:14:46.100,0:14:48.160
you

 

 

 

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